Something around the level of the Type 005's level.

Any list that includes both Adler and Sophia is basically destined to be broken, as the stacking Attack buffs can make even the most inaccurate attacks both highly damaging and accurate.

Adler is really what is at fault here more then anything, though other buff stacking combinations can achieve similar results (generally involving Sophia + an Organization specific attack buffer).

Specifically:
Fate + Sophia (Grimorium)
Promethea + Sophia (Any Undead, but especially Clover)
Covel + Sophia (Ahriman and Arias Vayu in particular)

A very interesting character, I like his mix of abilities.

Looking over possible combinations and list builds involving him now.

Yes, only 1 per chunk though.

So if he charges he will take 3 damage, and gain 1 counter.
If he uses thousand Broken Bones after that, he will take 1 damage and gain 1 counter.

Duncan Reid is just underwhelming, but no where near the worst of the litter.

His buffs upon the release of the Saga 1+2 Rulebook managed to get him out of the scrap heap.

Events are up for Gencon now, you guys in the catalog yet?

Edit: Found it, will make sure to register soon.

Azur Agent, Type 005 (stand-alone), Lin and Jiang Pao, Tsubasa (for his cost).

The problem with Paralyze is that its straight up too strong of a status effect to give to that many characters. Even with a lower effect chance it has the potential to just completely end the game. Slow on the other hand is often under utilized, and would go well as a buff to Poison effects.

Dropping the Damage requirement on Gates of Hel really doesn't do much for her, she is already very likely to damage anyone she actually hits. Piercing Weapons is also an option open to her.

As for Akio, Neokinesis Magus is actually a Ki ability, so it actually doesn't fit well with a Mystic like Akio.

@Lizbeth

You still didn't make a good point about Combat Mastery. As for Lilith, her entire kit is built around having that AP regeneration, hence her complete lack of a standard 3 AP special attack and AP costing support abilities. Comparing Lilith to an Arbiter is a mistake simply because Lilith actually has to spend AP to use her support abilities.'

The changes I made to her were meant to cut back on some of her utility while keeping her strengths prominent. She is still 75 points, and every other 75 point leader in the game is superior to her in direct combat, which is why she has utility.

Also, anti-stealth does need to be cut back some, but completely neutering them like you seem to be attempting to isn't the answer either. If it is an auto-seek, it should be normal CZ range, if it is long range, it should only receive a +1 to the seek roll. Valis was exempted from this because 1) its her optional leader ability, 2) it is an active ability, so she has to cast it on someone and wait another activation before it can even be used.

I also made Hidden for melee only cost 1 to use to make it easier for them to reapply.

@Ape2020

The reason for the "standardization" of a lot of those attributes is quite simply, a lot of characters have needlessly low attributes in stats closely related to their role. Defensively,  front-line character generally needs a combination of the following:

High Defense
High LP
High Armor (3+)
A build in defensive mechanic.

If it doesn't have at least 2 of these, odds are good it will just die to any special attack that connects. Most of the characters I adjusted defensively had sub-par stats in almost all of these areas.

I'll admit I probably went overboard with some of the damage adjustments though, a lot of the 4 > 5's probably don't actually need to happen, but 3 is too low for any character that is meant to actually cause damage, at least without some sort of gimmick (ignoring armor, poison).

There is also Organization specialties to consider. Wissenschaft and Azur Alliance are generally more glass-cannon orientated, so they should have lower LP and Armor, but should at least have higher Defense. Compare Harod to Freya/Frey, despite similar roles and attribute line-ups, Harod has 2 lower defense despite having very little offensive advantage over the sisters, making him even less desirable when you consider that the sisters have a team card.

Also, keep in mind many of these characters are already "unique" due to their abilities, not their Attributes, but attributes allow us to increase/decrease their power without touching upon that unique flavor.

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As for the ideas you proposed:

Kerberos = I like it, feels fluffy and useful.

Alastor = Giving another Arbiter Order has potential, but I always felt Alastor having two 3 AP single target special attacks was redundant. He also really seems like the type of guy that would sweep away multiple opponents with a single blow.

Claude = Avenger seems really overpowered tbh, he could potentially go from 0 to full AP within a single round. Claude also seems more the "guardian" type then the "avenger" type to me. I'd consider giving him 4 inch Shield/Intercept range.

Hel + Jerome = Going with my defensive formula earlier, I'd keep Hel at 10 Defense, but Jerome has Hidden so I could see keeping him at 9.

Death Squad also strikes me are hilariously overpowered with just the Paralyze option alone. As a spin on your idea though, we could make it so the Advantage gives a "debilitating" poison, and applies lvl 1 Slow in addition to the normal Poison status effect.

With the Three Dragons, I always saw it as odd how inaccurate they were considering they are all expert martial artists. I could see adjusting them to become more "flurry" orientated, but I think they would be just fine with some attribute adjustments.

The Akio idea is interesting, I honestly wanted to do something with him as well, but his potentially offensive power is already very high. Giving him a utility buff is a pretty good idea.

Yeah, but generally, you are wanting to do nothing but give heavy-handed nerfs to units you dislike personally. I'm trying to make outdated units actually useful, and only hitting the particularly over the top examples.

What you did to Combat Mastery is proof enough of that, since the Advantage itself is at a good place, its the other options that are lackluster.

Though you raise a good point about Kerberos' blood puppets. I had actually forgotten to put that in there, will probably revert the damage buff to him. The same to the Thritemius AP buff.

It resolves in the next maintenance phase.

Been meaning to do this thread for a while, but work has been keeping me quite busy as of late.

The basic idea of this thread is to improve the less desirable characters into a competitive option, and to nerf particularly broken characters (I'm looking at you Adler). There will be a lot of minor tweaks, as certain characters I feel are just a tad off on their basic attributes.

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Melee Prowlers AP cost for Hidden is now O (identical to Eve), but Ranged Prowlers still require OO.

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Azur Alliance

Alastor:
Lvl 80 > 75
Change Ignis into a 2 inch, +2 Damage enemy only Area Attack.

The Colonel:
Make Absolute Superiority an Innate Ability.

Kirsten:
Damage 3 > 4

Kyler:
Damage 4 > 5

Deadmoon:
Lvl 55 > 50
Defense 9 > 10

Hel:
Damage 3 > 4
Defense 9 > 10
LP 12 > 13

Jerome:
Defense 9 > 10

Harod:
Defense 8 > 9

Azur Agent:
Speed 6/10 > 8/12
Speed Upgrade (12/16) +10 lvl > +5 lvl
Attack and Defense Upgrade consolidation: (+1 Attack, +1 Defense) +5 Lvl

Claude:
Speed 6/10 > 8/12
Defense 8 > 9

Kerberos:
Blood Puppets: No longer removes Agents from play when Kerberos dies.

Church

Romeo
Exterminator of Gods: 10 > 8 damage

Alis:
Attack 4 > 5

Damien:
Damage 3 > 4

Justina:
Damage 3/8 > 4/8
Sinner's Glare: Effect 14 > 15

Evangeline:
Healing: OOO > OO (Once Per Turn).

Maria:
Death Puppets: Only 1 active puppet at a time.

Empire

Organization Advantages:

Imperial Armor +1 Armor > +1 Armor and +1 Resistance.

Griever:
Lvl 70 > 65
Damage 6 > 8
Defensive Stance: OO > OOO, Upkeep O

Duncan Reid:
Speed 6/10 > 8/12
Cross Blade: Linked Attack > Two Consecutive attacks.

Odin Goldsmith:
AP 2/4 > 3/4
To the Limit: changed to +1 AP regen at 10 LP or less.

Janus Faith:
Armor 3 > 4

Daniella Meris:
Damage 4 > 5
Ripple in the Water + Chasing the Moon consolidated into:
(Ki Attack) Ranged Attack (16 Inches), Roll two dice, Seal Effect 16.

Vayl:
Damage 4 > 5
Time Steal: Effect 13 > 14
Scar of Time: +2/+1 > +2/+2

Lilith:
Spy of Light: +3 Seek Role, +4 inch Seek Range > +1 Seek Roll, +4 inch Seek Range.
Protection: Lvl 2 Protection > Lvl 1 Protection.

Tiamat:
Damage 4 > 5
World of Wires: can effect both friendly and enemy characters.

Frederick Adler:
War Sacrifice: +3 Attack > +3 Damage, Changed to Dark Only.
Order of Assassination: Dark Only > Any Faction.

Iosara:
Replace Wandering Shadow with Advanced Deployment, or Infiltration.

Samael

Ophiel
Lord of Shadows changed to an Innate ability.
Dark Beam: Effect 14 > Effect 15
Devouring Darkness: Effect 14, +3 Difficulty Check > Effect 15, remove Difficulty Check.
Godless World: Change to > 3 inch AoE, +3/+3.

Kairos:
Damage 4 > 5
Dark Velistis +4 Damage > +3
Soul Spiral: +2 Damage > +1 Attack, +1 Damage
Final Burst: 3 inch w/ +2 Attack augment > 2 inch +1 Attack w/ +1 Inch and Attack augment.

Dark Cheshire:
Excisun Aeris: 12 inches, OOOO, +2/+2 > 16 inches, OOO +1/+1

Shnigami Ayl:
LP 14 > 15
Defense 8 > 9
Unholy Beam: OOO > OO
Mimic Damage: Effect 15 > Effect 16.
Doom Scythe: +2 Attack > +3 Attack

Genma:
Spiritual Beam: OOO > OO
Lasso of Unity: OOO > OO, once per turn.

Janiel:
Damage 2 > 3

Shadow:
Prowler > Prowler/Mystic

Wissenschaft

Alessa
Attack 4 > 5
Damage 4 > 5
Dark Sniper: +5 Attack > +4 Attack
Storm Waltz: Range 5 > Range 8

Celia:
Damage 3 > 4
LP 12 > 14

Feng Yi:
Damage 2 > 3
Defense 9 > 10
First Stance: Changed to an Innate ability, triggers off of Basic Attacks and/or Charges.

Veronica
Damage 2 > 3
Defense 9 > 10

Geothia:
Speed 6/10 > 8/12
Calamity Rain: OOO, Once Per Game > OOOO, no longer once per game.

Grimorium:
Technomagical Power Armor: Replace Reist with Elfriede (3 AP regen +5 Level)

Valis:
Poisoned Beings now a default Innate Ability.
Nux is now a Optional Leader only ability.

Fate:
Technofairy:
Grimorium +2 Attack > +1 Defense
Goethia +2 Walk/Run > +1 Attack
Trithemius +1 Attack > +2 Walk/Run speed.
Command System: now requires the target be within Fate's Control Zone.

Trithemius:
Remote Assistance: No longer reactive.

Wanderers

Jiang Pao
Damage 2 > 3
Defense 9 > 10
LP 12 > 13

Lin Pao
Damage 1 > 3
LP 10 > 12
Hundred Fists: +6 Damage > +3 Attack, +3 Damage

Li Long
Damage 3 > 4
LP 12 > 13
Hundred Fists: same as Lin Pao.

Takanosuke:
Damage 3 > 4
Void Eye: Effect 14, Difficulty +4 > Effect 15, Difficulty +3
8th Orochi Seal: +10 Level > +5 Level

Tsubasa Kurokami
Lvl 55 > 50
Damage 4 > 5

Feel free to throw in some suggestions/comments. Far from done with this, just some initial ideas.

Its fairly obvious to me you will refuse to look at Ophiel's advantages for rather silly reasons.

An Organization slot is used up, so what?

Its not like you wouldn't get those Advantages anyway, and he benefits a great deal from both Supernatural Mastery and Innate Mystics.

People act like being a beefier Dark Cheshire is a bad thing, when it is the exact opposite. Sure, he isn't exactly the most original with his 9/9 attack, but it still means he has one of the best unsupported 3 AP attacks in the game.

A 11/5 may hit more often, but the 9/9 style attacks are by no means inaccurate, and have a higher average damage against DR/AP-less models is never a bad thing.

He is still all around Samael's beefiest front-line fighter without any outside support, and he only gets better when supported properly.

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I do agree with Ape2020's buffs though, that alone would bring him up to date in my eyes, though giving him a nice AoE attack (maybe replacing Godless World) would be desirable as well.

Most non-buffed attacks in the game have higher odds of missing then Ophiel's 9/9, so not sure how "high probability of missing" figures into that.

Sure, Faust can throw out a higher accuracy attack, but it plainly does less damage on average. I have also found that Ophiel's ranged attack is actually quite effective if your using Supernatural Mastery (range increase), as it may have a low effect check, but its still a 6/6 ranged attack for 2 AP.

He certainly does have a lot of early design flaws, but he is still a VERY good beatstick. Never forget that Dark Cheshire's Summun is one of the best straight up attacks in the game. Ophiel just had the additional advantage of being beefier, and being innately mystic.

Also, most Samael characters rely quite a bit on support in my experience, up to and including Legion.

I disagree there Pig_soldier. Wissenschaft is easily among the best Organizations, but they do require a more skilled hand to master. I often lament how the Wissenschaft teams in the tournament never seem to bring an A-list team, despite how many A-list teams they possess.