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[Ape2020]

Actually Azur with Org Adv: Shadow Lords can in a Beta game can get up to 6 units easy:

Kyler 35
Kirsten 35 (or Jerome for more stealth)
Harod 35
Frey 35
Freya 35
Azur Agent (10 levels) 25

Or you could dump one of the unique prowlers above and get Sophia for 30 and Azur Agent with 15 levels of options for 30.  Sadly against your Wiss all wanderer 5-man team it would do rather well.

-ape2020

[Maclein]

:/
 Cruely...
 But chance still.

[Ape2020]

:/
 Cruely...
 But chance still.

Maybe but why limit yourself to five when there are several ways to get to six on a Wiss team like

Cordy 45 (or Rayne 45)                      
Alessa 45
Veronica 40 (or Feng Yi 40)
Bella with Aqua 45
Sophia 25 (or Wiss Agent 25 or Lin Pao 25 or Akio 25)

Or

3 Dragons 115
Bella with Aqua 45
Veronica or Feng Yi or Wiss Agent 40

Oh the sight a horde of Azur backstabbers fighting against a swarm of Wiss ankle biters.      

-ape2020

[Maclein]

))
 No. We playing mission from rulebook. Open mass fight is rary)
 

[Hiro]

@Usagi

Yes, the 90 point version is very much worth it however, if you wish to use another advantage besides manipulation then your likely going to need the 75 version. The process is a very powerful org. advantage that can make taking the 75 point version well worth it. Not to mention the added mobility can be very useful on maps with a lot of terrain. Also, if you want to use legacy in a light/dark list then your likely going to need to use the 75 point version to fit in good supporting characters for legacy.

Crit Mastery can win you games but so can the Process advantage.

[Waddledoo812]

@Usagi

Yes, the 90 point version is very much worth it however, if you wish to use another advantage besides manipulation then your likely going to need the 75 version. The process is a very powerful org. advantage that can make taking the 75 point version well worth it. Not to mention the added mobility can be very useful on maps with a lot of terrain. Also, if you want to use legacy in a light/dark list then your likely going to need to use the 75 point version to fit in good supporting characters for legacy.

Crit Mastery can win you games but so can the Process advantage.

Wait, I thought The Process doesn't even affect Gears. Why would Legacy benefit from having The Process as your Organizational Advantage?

Well of course both versions are worth their points, but 75 points is cheaper for pretty much the same thing, except for a few hindrances. I often find that is overlooked by what Valeria can contribute to Legacy, which is Advanced Deployment and higher Speed. A 10/14 Legacy 24 inches in at the start of play is never a bad scenario. I've been on the receiving end of that before and it's not so enjoyable.

@Usagi about Damien & Justina: My brother was just thinking this the other day. He said that Damien & Justina pose a huge threat if not totally wreck the Gears. I've seen Goethia run over by them and Grimorium greatly crippled by them. Against Legacy, they're still effective, but Legacy has never really cared too much against people that pose a threat to him. He can Energy Wings/Voice of God Damien as soon as he is out of AP and proceed to pummel Justina mercilessly. Lv.75 Legacy vs. Lv. 90 Damien & Justina is greatly efficient.

[Zeru]

He means that The Process will have a great impact on the models accompanying the Legacy. The Legacy may be the strongest character on the team, but he is by no means the only character you will have that is combat effective.

Also, while offensively Damien and Justina can do a good amount of damage against Gears, the Legacy can easily squash both in combat quite rapidly, neither of them can take the damage the Legacy deals out, and that is without assistance from other characters in the Wissenschaft team.

[Waddledoo812]

He means that The Process will have a great impact on the models accompanying the Legacy. The Legacy may be the strongest character on the team, but he is by no means the only character you will have that is combat effective.

Also, while offensively Damien and Justina can do a good amount of damage against Gears, the Legacy can easily squash both in combat quite rapidly, neither of them can take the damage the Legacy deals out, and that is without assistance from other characters in the Wissenschaft team.

Ah, that's why. I was wondering why Hiro was encouraging using The Process on Legacy, as that would be a void benefit.

That's true, hence why I said Legacy can use any 3 of his 3 AP Attacks to squash Damien one turn, and then Justina the next. But it's not like they can't cripple him greatly, thus why they're glass cannons  .

[Usagi]

well, using manipulation and taking the 90 point legacy, instead of the cheaper version and the process, is sort of akin to the empire advantage that bolsters one character greatly.
It's all in how you want to play the team...with a 90 point legacy,i see the team as a swarm of harassment around a brutal queen bee, nor a unit of equal parts shared effort...which the process is very condusive to, as it puts the needed suport on the part of the team that needs a little weight at the time to bring things back into balance.

[Waddledoo812]

Wait, what exactly does Wissenschaft's fourth Organizational Advantage entail? Something about Wanderers?

I have to ask why taking the Process would assist the Lv. 75 Legacy while Manipulation would fit well with Lv. 90 Legacy? How do the two Organizational Advantages cause a fluctuation in Legacy's Level?

EDIT: As a digressional (is that even a word?) question, how do I get a signature? I greatly yearn for a signature brandishing Samael.  

[Zeru]

Manipulation gives an extra Wanderer Slot and gives them a -10 level discount.

So Faust becomes 50 levels, and Sophia becomes 25.

This allows you to take some respectably powerful characters along with helping pay for the most expensive version of the Legacy.

The Process gives extra power to other characters, allowing them to support the lower level version better.

Edit: There is a thread in the off topic section that has a bunch of banners for the forum.

[Waddledoo812]

Manipulation gives an extra Wanderer Slot and gives them a -10 level discount.

So Faust becomes 50 levels, and Sophia becomes 25.

This allows you to take some respectably powerful characters along with helping pay for the most expensive version of the Legacy.

The Process gives extra power to other characters, allowing them to support the lower level version better.

Edit: There is a thread in the off topic section that has a bunch of banners for the forum.

Oh wow, Manipulation is rather potent, especially for Wanderer-heavy Wissen teams (Duh). Still, The Process and Lost Loggia can never be ignored, especially The Process.

Ah, I see why The Process and Manipulation encourage different levels of the Legacy.

And thanks for the direction on banners, even though I incorrectly labeled them as signatures, lol.

[Zelot 87]

Has anyone tried anything like this?

Bonus: Manipulation

Grim: Reist
Grim: Fredrick
Grim: Mechanic
Sophia: Clock of Cronos or Fate Clock
Dereck: Supernatural Weapon? (+1 to Attack)

Power Source
(Not sure what else to add with remaining points)

[Waddledoo812]

It has the potential to be an effective list, but I would forgo using certain Characters and cards:

1) It may be a matter of personal taste, but I would replace Reist Grimorium with Legacy. If the Reist Legacy is too expensive, I would take a Valeria Legacy, which is 5 points Cheaper than Reist Grimorium but arguably more effective anyways. You already have 2 Grimoriums; another makes this list predictable, and adding a Legacy creates flavor and variety.

2) I would give Sophia and Dereck some Advantage Cards. Even with Power Source you still have 10 Advantage Points left. You could throw in a Plot Card such as Tactics if you don't find any Advantage Cards suitable for Sophia and Dereck. Sophia functions well enough without an Advantage Card; most support units don't require Advantage Cards anyways. Because Dereck is an offensive Character, putting any "Weapon" card on him (Elemental, Piercing, Supernatural) is a solid and safe choice.

Sounds like a fun list; your opponent needs to cut through over 100 LP.  

[Hiro]

Heres a list I'm sure many will hate to face:

300 point Wissenschaft - Manipulation

Plot Card: Covert Operation

Legacy (Valeria Strauss)
Faust (Raphael's Gift)
Hiro (Piercing weapons + Clock of Cronos)
Cenette (Tempus Fugit)
Cordelia (Clock of Cronos)
Alessa

P.S. This would eat Zelot 87's list alive very quickly.