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[Swordwraith]

Venomous? Not at all.  Resigned? Sure. I think I've made it rather plain that I'd rather drop the issue.  If you'd like to entertain a slightly more philosophical debate (which that's pretty much it is, as the underlining issue is our interpretations.  Whether my interpretation is wrong. You are free to state my interpretation is in correct, but at least have the openmindeness to understand that through ours it is correct and consistent), then take it to PMs. I don't find much more value in any sort of argument.  In fact, this is the last time I will speak of it in this thread.  Zap me a PM if you'd like to continue.

And you idea that combat has to take a large part of a campaign is an enormous assumption.  Not everyone enjoys sitting around a table rolling dice at each other, carefully marking hit points and every circumstantial bonus our characters could squeeze in.  Not saying that you do (and not saying that I don't, see I find a well-setup combat very exciting), but don't assume that everyone is here to hack and slash.

I'm not using the absorb hit.  In the GM toolkit there's a total attack option.  You gain 30 attack for the loss of block/dodge ability.  You still get a D100, though.  It's dangerous, particularly now.  Now that I'm level 3 and haven't put a point into any combat skills since level 1.  I've done this deliberatly.  In the next couple-three levels I'll be pouring points into combat related abilities.

Assuming combat is a large part of any game is not the assumption I am making. I am assuming that when the excrement hits the fan, and eventually, it always will, you want to be prepared.

If you're not using Absorb the hit, and you have no block, every time you get hit, you lose your passive action. Given that you are dual wielding two handed swords and wearing heavy armor, the likelihood of someone attacking you and hitting you (and all they have to do is hit you, even if your armor nullifies the damage), you don't get to act that round.

How does the character even function in the fight then, if he can't defend himself? You have to be using absorb the hit, or you're literally unable to act. (P.S You can use it conjunction with Total attack. That is the point.)

To have picked up 130 block and 130 attack would have cost an extra 320 points (100 for attack, 220 for block). Or almost 40% of my total DP.  In fact, to get 130 attack and block ontop of the 35 wear armor I bought with DP, would put me over the 60% limit on combat abilities, or 540 points.

250 DP on attack, 220 for block, and 70 for wear armor.

That would murder my secondary skills.

No it wouldn't. There are plenty of advantages that will help you reduce that cost. Armor Use is one, or any Natural Aptitude for Social skills or Persuasion, or Double Natural Bonus....

I'll post a build.

[Hailene]

I figured though, in an RPG where there's going to be combat as a major part of the game.

Sounds like you're assuming combat is going to be a major part of the game. I mean it's pretty blatant. 

You misunderstand Total Attack as well.  When using Total Attack, you ignore hits as if you were Absorbing Hits.  We're arguing over semantics (then again that's all we're doing, really). 

I would love to see a build that could gather 130 attack and 130 defense with 70 wear armor and have 220 persuasion. Without murdering my other secondary skills.

Also as a note, we did a point buy system. 

Stat number=Cost

3=-2
4=-1
5=0
6=1
7=3
8=6
9=10
10=15

Total points available is 20. 

[Swordwraith]

I legitimately forgot that Total Attack counts as absorbing hits. My error.


Hmm, That point buy is very low, and starts you about 10 stat points lower than the average Anima character I've seen. Yours is a very low powered campaign.

Any particular reason you invented your own point buy when there's one in the GM Screen?

Anyway, here we go. I will endeavor to work with such a  stat distribution to further prove the point.

Agility: 5
Constitution: 6
Dexterity: 10 (9 + 1 from level up)
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 8
Perception: 4
Power: 5
Willpower: 5

Advantages:
Armor Use 2
Artifact 1 (+5 Longsword)
Natural Learner 2 (Persuasion)
Double Natural Bonus

Disadvantages:
Code of Conduct
Bad Luck
Slow Learner 2

Attack: 130 (110 + 15 Dex +5 Weapon) (220 DP)
Block:  140 (95 + 15 Class + 15 Dex + 15 Shield) (190 DP)


Athleticism: 15 (30 DP
Climb: 5 (10 DP)
Ettiquette: 15 (5 DP)
Leadership: 10 (10 DP)
Persuasion: 220 (120 DP) (120 + 60 Natural + 30 Class + 30 Natural Learner)
Tactics: 15 (10 DP)
Composure: 35 (10 DP)
Withstand Pain: 40 (10 DP)

Ki:
Use of Ki
Energy Armor

Weapon: Long Sword
Armor: Half Plate

He's no more or less super specialized than your character, still has several other usable skills (Yes, believe it or not 15s and 20s are usable! Shock and awe! When you only need 80 for the 'Moderately' difficult median scale...), has a ton more block, better Wear armor, better offense...

If you want, drop artifact for ambidexterity and dual wield. You'll end up with 125/125 for Attack and Block, but you'll have two weapons. If I'm frisky and move some DP around, I bet I can even get him an Ars Magnus.

[Hiro]

with that point buy I'm guessing they are playing a very low powered game which would explain a lot.

[Hailene]

Yeah, it's a low powered campaign.  We felt rolling was unacceptable (as someone would be stuck with less stats than someone else.) and we didn't have the GM kit at the time.  So we made up our own.  I myself petitioned for a relatively low point buy.  It allows starker differences between our characters.

Also, now that we have the GM toolkit and I'm looking at their point buy, I find it a little shallow.  It doesn't take in account that stats become more powerful as they go up (as the difference between 5 and 6 is little and 9 and 10 is a great deal more).

I'm a little shocked that you would spend 2 CP on wear armor, as each CP is only worth 10 DP.  Plus, at least in my expectations, don't foresee its usefulness in the long term.  Once you pretty much hit your sweet spot for wear armor you just burned CP you could use elsewhere.

Ditto with natural learner.  I'm a paladin, so each of those CP points are only worth 10 DP a level.

You made a small mistake on the natural learner bonus for Persuasion.  It's actually +10 per level per a CP.  So thanks to that I'm actually sitting around 250 persuasion.

On the downside, when I said about 220 persuasion I meant base, not total.  Total is closer to 280.  But I'll just add that to the end.

You didn't list wear armor, but I'll fill it in.  I get +5 from strength, +30 from Armor Use (2). That leaves me 55 points to completely nullify the natural penalty.  Or 110 DP.

But that places me above the 60% combat mark.  I can only put 70 DP into it.  This leaves me a 20 wear armor gap.

So how does this character fare?

On the defense he's clearly superior.  His equivalent defense is sitting around 180.  A good 100 higher than my character.  His attack is also 20 points higher. 

Damage is a bit shakier. This character hits at 60 damage versus 105.  Keeping in mind the long sword rends armor 1 AT, I'll just add 10 attack to the longsword's score. That anytime the Two-handed sword would hit, the longsword will hit for 30% more damage.

For AT greater than 4, if the two-handed sword hits (40< over the defense) it does 11 damage while the theoretical longsword user would hit for 2.

Increase the roll by 10 and the THS hits for 21 and the longsword for 30.  Again, 31 and 36.  At 80+ the defender's defense they're both hitting at 42 damage each.

Beyond that, the THS swiftly takes the lead in damage. Considering my character tries his darnest to hit an opponent that had been attacked several times, it's not too out of this world to be doing +80% damage against a target. Factor in that my character gets two swings (which means one of two things:The person is down another 20 defense from another attack, or he's already at -90 defense and he'll be dead shortly, anyway), and the damage potential between the two characters is immensely different.

And, again, I want to really make this clear. I have not put a single point into combat related abilities since level 1. For purposes of combat, my character (minus a little extra initiative and health) is a level 1 character.

Also, besides his physical abilities being in the dump (-30 from no points in them and a further -20 from my armor), he has no notice or search.

Also because of the armor, I move a grand total of 15 feet a turn. or 4 3/4ths as a passive action.

This character you have made certainly has perks (namely the defense), but for my needs its still insufficient.  He's also lacking in the retarded amounts of leadership I also possess.

Which, rather than delving too deeply into my character, is rather important.  I won't hold it against you since you didn't know about that part.

Finally, a 15 and 20 are hardly useful in most circumstances.

A 20 would mean I would need a couple of tries to pick a simple lock.  Hardly something I'd rest my life upon.

As a final note, guessing from other people's comments (I assume other people's, or it may be a single person...the three of you are getting mixed up in my head, I'll admit), your campaigns seem awfully centered around combat.  And that's fine.

My character is built more as a hybrid.  Capable in one arena, while completely dominating in another.  At the moment he is slanted heavily towards his secondary skills, as the last 2 levels has put 100 in both leadership and persuasion.  I'm sure if I brought my character forward at level 1 you guys would find it more acceptable.  He's currently transitioning back towards combat from level 4 onwards.  From there, you'll see him more balanced out.

And as a final, final note.  With both monstrous persuasion and leadership, my character, if he so chooses, may not have to fight at all. Recruiting allies (truly willing or not) is not impossible. 

Hiro--I'm interested in how a low powered game would explain a lot.  This isn't sarcastic or "venomous", but I'm genuinely curious.

[Zeru]

The point buy isn't just low in your campaign, its abysmally low. Most nameless mooks have equivalent or better stats then your characters. The Anima system is naturally inclined to rather high powered characters so low stats will cripple you a great deal.

Pretty sure Swordwraith was just trying to fill the requirements you set.

If the requirements were more reasonable, I could probably get you a more well balanced character with a pretty respectable set of secondary skills

[Hailene]

Quite frankly the stats seem fine enough.  Particularly in the world of secondary abilities, stats don't affect much. +15 instead of +10 or +5.

Redo the stats with a 35 point buy. Go to town.

That's one thing I forgot to mention in my last post.  The double natural bonus is nice, but beyond int skills, it's not too useful.  I don't see many dex skills being useful for my character.

[Swordwraith]

I want to know where your magical extra DP came from if you spent so much on Persuasion, that you can have such high Leadership as well.


Also, his 60 damage (which I could get to 70 or so) at 130 is a lot more reliable and effectual, considering he's not missing like you are. You are counting on a defensive penalty that is only relevant when a) the enemy doesnt have ways to make multipe unpenalized defenses (hurray supernatural shields!) or b) isn't damage resistance.

And no, there is no 'sweet spot' for Wear Armor. If your wear armor massively exceeds your worn armor type, you reduce the Initiative penalty.

I could have probably cheesed social skills more with Elan, but  meh, whatever.

Finally, a 15 and 20 are hardly useful in most circumstances.

A 20 would mean I would need a couple of tries to pick a simple lock.  Hardly something I'd rest my life upon.

Its about a 50% chance actually. Also, you know what's really not useful? Having a -30 in something because you couldn't sink 10 DP into something.

As a final note, guessing from other people's comments (I assume other people's, or it may be a single person...the three of you are getting mixed up in my head, I'll admit), your campaigns seem awfully centered around combat.  And that's fine.

My campaign rarely has more than one combat per session, and can go sessions without it, actually. Please do not try to imply that System mastery = Hack and slash.

And as a final, final note.  With both monstrous persuasion and leadership, my character, if he so chooses, may not have to fight at all. Recruiting allies (truly willing or not) is not impossible.  

Some of the things my party has fought recently:

1) A demon from the Wake
2) An Oni of War
3) Genetic experiments leftover from the War of God

Good luck talking to any of those.

Anyway, you asked for a build with criteria, I gave it to you. You got your ruling clarification, and disregarded it. I think we can safely say we're done here.

EDIT: Zeru informs me I have about 100 DP unspent because I didn't clear out an error in my character generator, so bam, now you have your 100 Leadership too. Use the 35 points to give him 10 strength, now you can wield a bastard sword or a two hander one handed, matching the damage output of your character. Grab Elan or something too if you want more skill shennanigans.

[Hiro]

He's also lacking in the retarded amounts of leadership I also possess.

I don't understand why you need so much persuasion or leadership when the amount you have is overkill. Even 100 in persuasion or leadership at level 1 would be overkill and practically auto pass most reasonable rolls.

[Hailene]

Because I want to have my men and followers overcome almost inhuman obstacles and be truly inspired to do the work of God?

I mean, yeah, sure, the average pep talk in the locker room during half-time is all right, but I wanted a bit more.

[Hiro]

Hiro--I'm interested in how a low powered game would explain a lot.  This isn't sarcastic or "venomous", but I'm genuinely curious.

It would explain why you haven't faced a large enough number of supernaturally powerful enemies at level 1 to 1 shot your character with a magic or KI attack.

It should be impossible for your party to constantly gang up on enemies to allow your character to be effective unless they are few in number and relatively weak by normal anima game standards.

Because I want to have my men and followers overcome almost inhuman obstacles and be truly inspired to do the work of God?

I mean, yeah, sure, the average pep talk in the locker room during half-time is all right, but I wanted a bit more.

Thats what 100 in persuasion and leadership would give you. Hence why having 280 plus is overkill. Anything that would require that kind of Roll is likely not to even get any roll. As in most GM will just say it impossible for you to influence with a secondary skill. These skills are not meant to be effective all the time with a high enough score.

[Zeru]

An Example I threw together.

Class: Paladin

Stats: (20 Point Buy)

Str  9
Con  6
Dex  8
Agi  6
Int  8
Pow  5
Will 5
Perc 5

Advantages:
Elan 2 (Azrael)
Jack of All Trades

Disadvantages:

Code of Conduct

Combat:

Attack: 100 (200 DP) + 10 = 110
Block: 100 (200 DP) +10 + 15 = 125
Wear Armor: 40 (80 DP) 10 + 30 = 80

Secondary Skills:

Athleticism 5 (10 DP) +5 +10 = 20
Jump 5 (10 DP) + 10 +10 = 25
Ride 5 (10 DP) + 5 +10 = 20
Climb 5 (10 DP)+ 5 +10 = 20
Swim 5 (10 DP) +5 +10 = 20

Leadership 100 (100 DP) +30 (class) +40 (Elan) +10 =  180
Persuasion 140 (140 DP) +30 (Natural) +10 = 180

Notice: 15 (30) +10 = 25

Composure 5 (10 DP) +30 (Class) + 40 (Elan) +10 = 85
Withstand Pain 10 (10 DP) +30 (Class) +10 = 50

Martial Mastery: 60

Use of Ki
Aura Extension
Presence Extrusion

Has a decent spread of skills, and your choice of a weapon.

and for the record, 20 in a skill is rather solid for a non-primary skill, if your looking for higher, you better be ready to dump away some of your higher Secondary Skills.

Edit: With a 35 point buy, I'd increase Power and the physical stats a bit more.

[Hailene]

I would love to see what sort of opponents you're running up against at level 1 as well as a level 1 character from one of your campaigns.  Clearly they're impossibly better.  I'm expecting great things.

See, here's where I'm finding the issue, I think, between highlevel skills and a few of you guys.

You (or your GMs) must put some sort of cap on skills.  Not entirely on purpose.  And nothing like an actual number.  Nothing at all like "Once you roll past 180 on persuasion, you're not going to convince anyone more." Something more along the lines "This guy is a main NPC character. You can not convince him to join you.  You must fight and defeat him."  That happens in video games.  You can't polymorph bosses.  You can't put them to sleep. Instant death blows don't effect bosses.

Our GM is a bit more flexible.  He knows we're not normal people.  We can do feats that we wouldn't even consider with your average superheros. And he expect us to use those skills.

There has been more than one time I've convinced (through good rolls and extensive roleplaying) a mini-boss level guy to not only not attack us, but to help us.  Sometimes in the short run, sometimes on a more permanent basis.  He didn't expect that to happen, but these characters sort of grew spontaneously and organically.

Likewise, there have been other times when our party members, with a little bit of thinking, have developed ingenious solutions to problems thanks to their out-of-this-world abilities.  They not only surprised the GM, myself, but themselves as well.

If your campaigns lack this sort of organic malleability, I can understand how a high ability score would be rather useless and rather aggravating to a GM.

Edit: Looking at that new character, Zeru, he's a fine character.  Although I think you mentioned 110 attack was a little bit on the low side of a level 3, yet your character has but only 110 attack leaves my scratching my head.

If I decided to build a more moderate all rounder, it probably would have looked something like that.  A traditional, strong attack and defense with moderate physical abilities.  In fact, one of my party members (the most rounded of us, actually) looks pretty similar to that.  Beyond he decided to be more defensive and only pick up 40 or so into the social skills.

[Zeru]

Actually, the DM screen recommends a hard-cap of 200 for Secondary Skills at level 1-3. Which is quite reasonable, because going over that amount is entering the redundant territory for what you would likely encounter.

With your leadership score, you could convince a bunch of normal farmers to raise arms against Cthulu, and if your engaging something that horrible at level 1-3, your pretty screwed.

Persuasion is also not something meant to convince people who are dead set on going against you. If there is a War Oni, no amount of Persuasion will get it to listen to you, it is simply the nature of the being.

Now if it is a more level-headed Inquisitor, you could probably convince him well enough with a Very Difficult or Absurd Persuasion that you mean no harm, and he could well assist you in the future.

Now if your trying to convince him when he catches you actually DOING something evil, no realistic amount of Persuasion would stop him from going against you.

Edit: 110 is a bit on the low side for a pure combat character, but your character is intent on being a skill-monkey. The extra defense also makes your offense less important. You could easily shift 10-15 from your Block to Attack without much hassle if you wanted it to be higher. That was also before I realize how low your point buy actually was.

[Hailene]

Oh, no, I couldn't convince him I wasn't doing evil.

I COULD possibly convince him that I'm murdering these heretics that were assembling to overtop the local church and murder its clergy.  Depending on the familiarity between the Inquisitor, myself, and the townfolk.

Think about it.  I just did the equivalent smooth talking past that of catching a fly with chopsticks, blindfolded.  That is impossible to imagine a normal person doing.  That's probably beyond the imagination of most players.  I myself couldn't think of a situation or the lines someone could say to do something like that.

Hell, catching a fly with chopsticks is impossibly hard.  Being blindfolded would make it 20 times harder.