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May 23, 2013, 05:30:01 AM
The Official Anima ForumsAnima - Role Playing GameFan-madePost your houserules for Anima
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Lizbeth
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« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2012, 02:43:53 AM »

Even when I get Core Exxet and Arcana Exxet I'll HOUSERULE rituals so their cost increase also applies to maintain.
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In particular, offensive and defensive erudition become very abusable paired with natural spell
No they are not. First of all, Projection is slightly less than attack on decent levels (Lv 5: Proj 150, Attack 150+weapon. Lv 9: Proj 210, Attack 225+weapon). Next, Innate Spell have really low Zeon cost unless you invest 3CP there. So like 20-30 to projection won't ruin a game.
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vytzka
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« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2012, 08:17:55 AM »

I'm leaning towards only allowing psychic powers of level 1 at the start (assuming medium supernatural level) because I have trouble keeping psychics in check at low levels. Is that bad?
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FearlessElbow
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« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2012, 08:40:50 AM »

I'm leaning towards only allowing psychic powers of level 1 at the start (assuming medium supernatural level) because I have trouble keeping psychics in check at low levels. Is that bad?
From what I hear, EVERYBODY has trouble keeping Psychics in check at low levels, so I'm sure that's fine as long as they're not nerfed to the point of uselessness.
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Spirit_Crusher
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« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2012, 09:17:54 AM »

Psis at low levels are straight out devastating; limiting them to lev 1 powers would do something to limit the problem.
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bleakheart26
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« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2012, 11:55:23 AM »

Psis at low levels are straight out devastating; limiting them to lev 1 powers would do something to limit the problem.


Well, in my opinion yes & no guys.  Sure the advantages of a psychic are their power is considered projectile, and some are considered invisible to normals sight, and depending on the way the psychic builds their character the saves might be really high for level one characters.

On the draw backs of them, their defense is ALL or NOTHING. So when they get hit it is the same thing as standing point blank into an angry apes arm as it slams into you. Will very much likely kill them or least critical them if they can't stop it. Their defense against that is their (expectantly high ) projection ability and their initiative that gets out paced by most prowlers and in the event that the ki using tao/technician develop init modifying abilities then they will also out react the projection people. Again at later levels you are missing the point that the dominant melee combatants could (potentially) see supernatural, and block/dodge such attacks with out penalty, and with ever so slight modifications you could attack these projection classes with say music or nearly hidden attacks like in the blood legacy monofilament weapons or music/ect. that require checks to even know how your being attacked. So depending on what way you look at it sure the projection classes have an edge on part of a market. BUT they don't rule the game alone. Chances are if they have invested heavily into their powers they seriously lack in all other realms. Those being Skills, the ability to dodge, see, ware armor. And lets not forget anyone with the ability to ki/matrix/magic cancel from the nemesis section of the ki book. So sure complain out their strength but then think about it in a real world context. How do you deal with such a person in real life if you became aware of them? Call em a witch and burn them/ weigh them in comparison with a duck (because ducks float on water), give them a wide(R) birth if you know they are in the area, or even attack from range with a bow (fired projectile, from cover (surprise)). So try not to get so rattled in regards to psychics/mystics (projection users). Besides they still have to PROJECT the power over a distance to actually hit someone with it, AND they need to know you are there (to target).
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bleakheart26
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« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2012, 11:59:14 AM »

oh, and one power to start means they might be able to attack someone or defend from an attack, but only if they are allowed to do so. I mean what if they choose a power to scan for active minds in the area. They spend all of level one and two running away from a possible threat on the off chance someone wants to cause them harm and they have no way to defend or attack. That just seems unreasonable to me. make a character and give them phobia (people) lol.
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vytzka
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« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2012, 01:08:49 PM »

Not one power. Level 1 powers.

And most of your counterarguments seem to be about higher levels when psychics will have been able to pick up higher level powers in-game. So I don't really see the issue with the starting limitation yet.
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Lizbeth
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« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2012, 02:05:51 PM »

I'm leaning towards only allowing psychic powers of level 1 at the start (assuming medium supernatural level) because I have trouble keeping psychics in check at low levels. Is that bad?
No it is not bad.
Psychics are rather crooky designed.
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Spirit_Crusher
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« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2012, 02:13:31 PM »

Psis at low levels are straight out devastating; limiting them to lev 1 powers would do something to limit the problem.


Well, in my opinion yes & no guys.  Sure the advantages of a psychic are their power is considered projectile, and some are considered invisible to normals sight, and depending on the way the psychic builds their character the saves might be really high for level one characters.

On the draw backs of them, their defense is ALL or NOTHING. So when they get hit it is the same thing as standing point blank into an angry apes arm as it slams into you. Will very much likely kill them or least critical them if they can't stop it. Their defense against that is their (expectantly high ) projection ability and their initiative that gets out paced by most prowlers and in the event that the ki using tao/technician develop init modifying abilities then they will also out react the projection people. Again at later levels you are missing the point that the dominant melee combatants could (potentially) see supernatural, and block/dodge such attacks with out penalty, and with ever so slight modifications you could attack these projection classes with say music or nearly hidden attacks like in the blood legacy monofilament weapons or music/ect. that require checks to even know how your being attacked. So depending on what way you look at it sure the projection classes have an edge on part of a market. BUT they don't rule the game alone. Chances are if they have invested heavily into their powers they seriously lack in all other realms. Those being Skills, the ability to dodge, see, ware armor. And lets not forget anyone with the ability to ki/matrix/magic cancel from the nemesis section of the ki book. So sure complain out their strength but then think about it in a real world context. How do you deal with such a person in real life if you became aware of them? Call em a witch and burn them/ weigh them in comparison with a duck (because ducks float on water), give them a wide(R) birth if you know they are in the area, or even attack from range with a bow (fired projectile, from cover (surprise)). So try not to get so rattled in regards to psychics/mystics (projection users). Besides they still have to PROJECT the power over a distance to actually hit someone with it, AND they need to know you are there (to target).

I agree they're not overpowered complexively, but they can be very dominating at lower levels, up to level 3 or 4.
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Lizbeth
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« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2012, 12:01:30 AM »

I agree they're not overpowered complexively, but they can be very dominating at lower levels, up to level 3 or 4.
It's more like some of their powers are rather overpowered.
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Sharpandpointies
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« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2012, 02:08:34 AM »

On the draw backs of them, their defense is ALL or NOTHING. So when they get hit it is the same thing as standing point blank into an angry apes arm as it slams into you.

How is this the case?

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Also the problem is that every time someone pulls such a combo he gets killed by some kind of Lazarus or such.

- Lizbeth
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« Reply #71 on: July 19, 2012, 12:14:25 AM »

On the draw backs of them, their defense is ALL or NOTHING. So when they get hit it is the same thing as standing point blank into an angry apes arm as it slams into you.

How is this the case?



I'd also like to hear this. If you're talking about putting up a shield against attacks and not reaching the attackers roll with your projection roll then no, that just works like normal defense in terms of how much damage they would inflict AFAIK. It's written rather unclear, but that's the case with many things in the english translation.
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Zelekendel
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« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2012, 05:18:11 PM »

I've considered swapping weapon initiative modifiers for an attack modifier equal to half their value.

This comes from the school of thought also represented in The Riddle of Steel RPG that weapon size and speed is a factor in being successful with your attack, not in your personal initiative. This also works well with actions that are not weapon related (yet normally your weapon plays a large part in your initiative whether you'll attack with it or not, when we don't use an action declaration round before initiative anyway).

Any thoughts whether that ratio sounds about right? The idea is not to necessarily have a fair deal for huge and heavy two-handers, as this shows that they're a bit unpractical for personal combat - but very useful in many situations, still. The sweet spot probably somewhere between the longsword (not the fantasy kind) and the katana.


I've also considered weapon reach as an extra complication, between 1 to 5, with the difference being a negative modifier for your attack roll times 5 (if your weapon is shorter, or if your weapon is longer and the opponent has closed the distance by succeeding on a strike or otherwise maneuvered in).
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Raybras
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« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2012, 07:22:06 PM »

my group's houserules:
1) can take up to 5 disadvantages, for no more than 6 CP
2) inhumanity level 3 required, zen level 7 required
3) Tao's cannot take "exclusive weapon" Disadvantage
4) Velez has a requirement of Expert Tai Chi AND Expert Kung Fu
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FearlessElbow
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« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2012, 01:36:34 AM »

I've considered swapping weapon initiative modifiers for an attack modifier equal to half their value.

This comes from the school of thought also represented in The Riddle of Steel RPG that weapon size and speed is a factor in being successful with your attack, not in your personal initiative. This also works well with actions that are not weapon related (yet normally your weapon plays a large part in your initiative whether you'll attack with it or not, when we don't use an action declaration round before initiative anyway).

Any thoughts whether that ratio sounds about right? The idea is not to necessarily have a fair deal for huge and heavy two-handers, as this shows that they're a bit unpractical for personal combat - but very useful in many situations, still. The sweet spot probably somewhere between the longsword (not the fantasy kind) and the katana.
I think if you go down this route you may be crippling Weaponsmasters etc that use the bigger weapons when compared to Tao.

Let's take a Tao at.. let's say Level 5.  He get's a +20 to speed for using Unarmed Combat.

Now we take a Weaponsmaster of the same level using a Two-Handed Axe.  Irrespective of the fact that he's possibly also wearing crazily heavy armour, his weapon alone gives him a -70 to speed.

The difference is 90 points.  If you convert that to an Attack value, as per your suggestion, you're looking at an Attack difference of 45 points.  Which is the equivalent to 90DP of Primaries.  Or nearly two levels.

It becomes like a Level 3 Weaponsmaster is fighting a Level 5 Tao, and we can guess how well that works out for him.  He's getting destroyed.

Using (very) rough figures....

The Tao's getting initiative 50% of the time (assuming equal armour, Dex & Agility).  On those 50%, he's hitting the WM 50% of the time (sometimes damaging, sometimes not), and the WM is now on the defensive, so doesn't get to attack.  So the Tao's at 25% hit percentage already.

When the WM gets initiative the other 50% of the time, or in the 25% that the Tao gets initiative but doesn't hit, the WM is hitting about a quarter of that time, because the Tao finds it so easy to block the guy's penalised attack.  So he gets about 19% hit percentage.  But that's ALL he's getting.  In the other 3/4rs of that time, the Tao is getting to attack, often with a counter-attack bonus due to his block being so much higher that the WM's attack.  So we'll say he hits 60% of that time.  That's overall an additional 23%.  Taking his total hit %age to 48%, compared to the WM's 19%.

Now assume you invest extra DP in attack at the expense of defence. The Tao's defence is not quite as dominant as it was, but now his attack is dominant as well.

The Weaponsmaster is getting hosed.   Embarrassed

I honestly think the initiative/weapon-speed system is one part of the system (one part of MANY) that really does work well.

Of course, that's what houserules are about.  If that's how you want the game to play, that's your prerogative.   Smiley
 
I've also considered weapon reach as an extra complication, between 1 to 5, with the difference being a negative modifier for your attack roll times 5 (if your weapon is shorter, or if your weapon is longer and the opponent has closed the distance by succeeding on a strike or otherwise maneuvered in).
I think this is making the attack round a whole lot more complicated.  I absolutely see the logic behind it, but I think you're making a lot of work for yourself.

Also, you'd need to start factoring in Size as well.  Because how much reach advantage will a child with a bastard sword have over a Jayan with a short-sword?  It's debatable.

Quote from: Raybras
My group's houserules:
1) can take up to 5 disadvantages, for no more than 6 CP
2) inhumanity level 3 required, zen level 7 required
3) Tao's cannot take "exclusive weapon" Disadvantage
4) Velez has a requirement of Expert Tai Chi AND Expert Kung Fu
Looking at them one-by-one:
1) This can make your characters EPIC.  You're effectively saying you get up to 9DPs worth of advantages.  That's pretty huge (but I'm sure it plays awesomely).   Cheesy
2) Fair enough.
3) That to me is a no-brainer.  I hadn't even realised they had that option.  I absolutely agree that Tao's should never be allowed that disadvantage.  Unless.... they're using one of the weapons listed in DE that work specifically for certain MAs and not for others.  That way, they're limiting what MAs they can buy.  But never, EVER allow it for Unarmed.  That's just a free CP usually.
4) Well that kills at least one of my characters off.   Grin  Low-level access to Velez is a godsend for MA-types.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 01:39:40 AM by FearlessElbow » Logged
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