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May 18, 2013, 11:23:37 AM
The Official Anima ForumsAnima - TacticsTacticsSaga 3 Metagame (update: Wissenschaft)
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Zeru
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« on: December 03, 2011, 04:02:06 AM »

I decided that now seems like a fairly good time to start commenting on how Saga 3 has effected each Organization. I'm still debating whether I'll make separate threads for each Organization, or lump them all together here as I complete them.
I'll just reserve some space in case it is necessary for the other Organization.

Also, odds are I'll do Black Sun separately, as this thread is more over how Saga 3 is effecting each of the Organizations.


Azur Alliance

As a whole, Azur Alliance has gotten the largest cast of new characters in Saga 3,
Unfortunately, this does not mean they have improved their position a great deal from Saga 1-2. They are still quite viable, but their core weaknesses remain as apparent as ever, they simply lack the staying power of other Organizations while not having much of an advantage elsewhere. This also extends to their reliance on Stealth characters, which is one of the most easily countered character types in this game due to the abundance of anti-stealth.

Strengths

Low cost Prowlers and powerful Arbiter Orders.

Weakness

Low durability and extremely expensive leader options.

Best Match Up: Empire (non-Lilith teams)

Empire is a surprisingly good match-up for Azur alliance despite their high durability. Their low average resistance score makes it much easier to apply status effects and wear away at them. Their lack of anti-stealth characters (outside of Lilith) makes it relatively easy to move as you please. The mobility advantage is also squarely in Azur Alliance's favor, though Empire isn't as far behind here as it once was.

Worst Match Up: Black Sun (Undead Teams)

Just looking at Hunter and the Raziels should make this abundantly clear. Not only are they immune to poison, but they actually get a bonus to detecting Hidden units innately. In a typical line-up, the only real target Azur Alliance would have is Promethea, who is probably behind a wall of undead muscle.

Honorable mention goes to Wissenschaft in this category, due to Valis basically making Stealth attacks impossible with Nux, and making Seek rolls auto-succeed if she is a Leader. Not to mention Gears, which are generally too tanky to burst down and are immune to poison, making them difficult to wear down.

High Arbiter Aizen

Tied with Legacy (Reist) as the most expensive character in the game, Aizen is certainly worth the points due to his sheer board presence. No character is safe from him due to his incredible mobility.  His sheer cost is still a rather big problem for the Azur Alliance however, making Shadow Lords  mandatory for fielding him in an effective list.

He also has a problem striking at targets while playing his role as an Arbiter, simply because it’s a good idea for him to activate late in a turn to strike vulnerable targets, but his orders may be needed much earlier in a round. His lack of Motum compared to Alastor and Arkeid also hurts the mobility of the rest of his team.

Synergy

Juliette, she is incredibly cheap and helps get around how far away Aizen usually operates from his team. She is also a Prowler, and since Shadow Lords is basically mandatory to field an effective team with Aizen, this only makes the synergy more apparent.

Advantage Card

Nephiros; if he is played right, any person he is attacking is probably dead. Giving him an AP back in the process is just icing on the cake, especially if he was Hidden.
Alternatively, Nue is another good option, making him almost impossible to detect through conventional means thanks to his innate ability.

Kerberos

Kerberos is a solid warrior; I actually think he is one of the more solid level 50 characters in the game. Sadly, he doesn’t synergize well with most Azur Alliance teams due to his inability to take Orders. He is still useful in the regard that there won’t be enough orders to go around anyway. AKA, you’re using them on other characters.
His buff to Agents is simply not worth it in my eyes; partially due to the fact Azur Agents are already the weakest Agents in the game, but also because it makes Kerberos a prime target to take out 1/3 of your force with 1 kill.

Synergy

He synergizes well with no one in particular due to his Independent rule.

Advantage Card  

Orb of Power, as with almost anyone who has Power Token type resources.

Puppet Master Team (Frey, Freya, Adolf)

I’ll put these three under a single entree, seeing as they should always be fielded together due to their rather potent team card, and the sheer difficulty of controlling the twins otherwise.

To some extent, Frey and Freya are business as usual within the Azur Alliance, stealthy, squishy and possessing impressive offensive power.  This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, as they are both very good at the assassin role due to sheer speed and strength. Freya’s AoE (9/5, 2 inches) is incredibly potent if used at the right time, and Frey’s Charge (11/3)  is one of the deadliest stealth attacks in the game due to her base speed and the AP draining Effect.

Just keep in mind that having one twin die automatically makes the other go berserk, always keep this in mind when sending one of them in.

Adolf has very little value outside of his team card abilities, his ability to Blind/Poison can be useful, but it is far less useful then giving +2 Attack, AP, or a free attack to his daughters. Being able to control their berserk tendencies is quite helpful as well. He is effectively a mini Arbiter for the twins.

The attack spam potential of the twins once they are engaged is rather impressive due to their team card. Arbiter attack orders combined with the Compello, or Luctus can be devastating to just about anyone. This is particularly true if you win Initiative, which is quite likely with all the Initiative stacking within the Azur Alliance, while one of the twins are berserk.

Synergy

Arkeid, this cannot be overstated. She makes it much easier to redeploy the twins via Conmutio and helps them survive after an assassination attempt with Praesidum.
Wolfbane is also a great boon not only to the twins (as a tank), but to Adolf due to his Naga Child innate ability.

Advantage Card

For the twins, Clock of Chronos is incredibly useful for keeping them alive immediately after using their hidden attacks.
For Adolf, Control Bound is an excellent option if you plan to have him use his own abilities. If not, Clock of Chronos is a good alternative.

Claude

At first glance, Claude would be an excellent addition to any Azur Alliance team, he is everything they need. He is a fairly tough warrior with some strong tanking abilities. However, he is held back significantly by several factors.

a)   He is slow and has a difficult time keeping up with almost any character he would need to protect.

b)   He isn’t tough enough to use Counter of the Cross, 6 Defense is incredibly low, and Claude won’t be able to absorb the damage of most character he should be tanking. This is particularly true when playing against Empire.

c)   He has no way of forcing his opponent to engage him, he possess no real threatening offensive capabilities, and much like Duncan Reid, actually requires someone to bother attacking him to be effective.

d)   (not so)Absolute Defense, due to its wording, does not defend him against Ranged Attacks. This makes him a prime target for ranged focus fire as soon as he activates it. This is particularly bad when facing off against Wissenschaft, or Samael.  Errata'd

Synergy

Arkeid covers almost every weakness I outlined above. Conmutio helps him get into contact with who he needs to be tanking. Her Light Shield also makes Counter of the Cross much less suicidal. It is also possible for him to throw out a couple of basic attacks with her help if so desired.

Advantage Card

Raphael’s Gift, which is more or less mandatory on most tank characters.

Wolfgang

In contrast to Claude, Wolfgang is actually an amazing addition to most Azur Alliance teams. He is fairly beefy, especially for a level 40 character with his offensive capabilities.

Naga’s Child gives him excellent synergy with any poison users, which are in abundance within the Azur Alliance.  Poison is usually nothing more than an annoyance, but it becomes a significant threat with Wolfgang on your team.
Having a chance to blind just by getting into base to base contact is extremely potent for a tank. Not to mention it is also an effective way to prevent Seek rolls from uncovering your Hidden units.

Synergy

Anyone with poison works well with this guy. Adolf, Harod, Kirsten and Azur Agents with poison all benefit immensely from his presence.

Advantage Card

None in particular, the usual bread and butter work well on him, but nothing particularly stands out. Clock of Chronos/Rafael’s Gift.

Juliette

If you don’t take Absolute Authority as your Organization Advantage, this girl is basically mandatory. This applies especially to any team utilizing Shadow Lords, her Prowler status and extremely low point cost leaves no room for an excuse to not take her. Reign of Chaos can be quite nasty when you rob an opponent of their last remaining AP before an assassin attacks them, but Whisperer is likely to see more use since it is reactive and bonus Attack + Defense is always desirable.

Synergy

Any Arbiter obviously, this includes the Colonel when he takes the Les Jaeger team card. As mentioned before, Aizen in particular gets a lot of benefit from her.

Advantage Card

Gnosis is definitely a great choice for her, she has rather low survivability, and Hidden isn’t always reliable enough to protect her.
Alternatively, Nue is great as well, making her harder to detect so she can stand close to the battle and continue to channel Arbiter Orders + Buff.

Wanderers and Summons

Since it has been requested, I'll add a small section into each Organization's section over specific wanderer/summons that work well with Organizations.

Keep in mind this is still limited to Saga 3.

Kagemaru + Shinobi

Since these two are closely related, I put them under a single section.

Kagemaru fits a very important role in potential Azur lists, as he is far cheaper then any of the existing Azur Alliance leaders. He also gives the team access to Dark Summons, as well as a discount and increased Agent slot for Shinobi (also prowlers). Kagemaru himself is also an excellent assassin with an impressive escape ability in the form of Kage.

The Shinobi themselves are more or less superior to standard Azur Agents, and with Kagemaru's leader form, they get double the benefit from Shadow Lords, granting them a total of -10 to their point cost.

The lower cost point of the above to allow for the Azur Alliance to field greater numbers to make up for their lack of durability, though you should always be cautious about characters that excel at destroying multiple weaker foes (Marchosias, Black Lion, Legacy, etc).


Alius

For Summons, the Alius is ideal for the Azur Alliance. It is a cheap yet fairly beefy tank summon that can be summoned by Arkeid. It is superior in durability to anyone but the Arbiters themselves within the Azur Alliance. Their throw charge and push abilities make them excellent at disruption as well. If you are looking for pure durability/cost effectiveness, the Alius is one of the best characters to add to your list.

Al'Djinn

If you field Kagemaru, the Al'Djinn is an excellent summon as well. The Al'Djinn can either clone Kagemaru for double the Master Shinobi fun, or one of the enemy tanks to increase your team's durability.
The Al'djinn is also capable of producing Ash Slaves, which potentially make Kerberos quite useful if you create Azur Agents with it. Empire Agents are also another great option due to their innate durability.

Teams

Here are a couple of example teams I came up with that utilize the Saga 3 characters. As per my usual fair, I consider all these teams fairly competitive.

Organization Advantage: Shadow Lords

Arkeid
Ligori + Piercing Weapons
Adolf + Control Bound
Freya + Clock of Chronos
Frey + Clock of Chronos
Wolfgang
Juliette + Gnosis

Team: Puppet Master

I consider this team a highly effective display of the synergy between characters, and potentially the strongest team Azur Alliance can field at this time.

Arkeid can offer defensive buffs to Ligori and Wolfgang, significantly increasing the toughness of the team. She is also capable of swapping in either of those two with twins after an assassination attempt. Wolfgang’s presence also makes Adolf a credible threat with his level 2 poison.

Juliette allows Arkeid to operate from the safety of the back lines, primarily offering fire support with her ranged abilities + buffs while the rest of her team moves up.

As an alternative to the above team, you could also simply swap Arkeid out for Aizen , giving you an incredibly potent assassin to obliterate vulnerable targets at the loss of Arkeid's utility.


Organization Advantage: Shadow Lords

High Arbiter Aizen + Nephiros
Juliette + Gnosis
Deadmoon + Clock of Chronos
Hel
Jerome + Clock of Chronos
Wolfgang
Harod + Clock of Chonros

Team: Lords of the Abyss

While this team is significantly squishier then the previous one, the sheer assassination power of this list is undeniable. If you desire it, everyone but Wolfgang can start the game completely out of LoS. Lords of the Abyss have Infiltration. While Aizen, Juliette and Harod are have Stealth. Heck, if you really felt like it, Aizen could make Wolfgang Hidden as soon as he activates.

The sheer amount of damage this team can push out is quite astounding, with two of the best assassins in the game (Harod and Aizen), along with Wolfgang doubling the power of Harod’s poison.

Juliette is there to extend Aizen’s influence, allowing him to soften up targets significantly before he engages for the killing blow himself.
Alternatively, he can provide the assassins with extra AP if they succeed in killing their target via Mortis, making it easier for them to survive retaliation.


Organization Advantage: Shadow Lords

Kagemaru + Familiar
Shinobix4 (level 35)
Kerberos + Orb of Power
Al'Djinn (Greater)
Ligori + Piercing Weapons

Plot Card: Tactical Advantage

The above team is more or less to take advantage of the lack of Arbiter and fit in as many characters as possible while being effective. Kerberos has no Arbiter to worry about.

The Shinobi can be built to personal preference at 35 levels, while only costing 25 points due to the combined discount of Kagemaru and Shadow Lords.

The Al'Djinn can play Gnosis denial while producing either Empire Agents (for durability), or Azur Agents (for Kerberos' buff). If you don't want to produce additional Agents, it is quite capable of cloning Kagemaru for some shadow clone shenanigans, or copying the best character on the enemy team to give yourself an advantage.

Ligori is there to provide some extra beef in the list. While he loses some potency due to lack of attack Orders, he is still a good option due to his sheer damage potential.
---------------

In Summary, I still think Azur Alliance has a way to go before it stands shoulder to shoulder with the other Organizations, but their standing has certainly improved with some of the new additions.

If it wasn't fairly obvious from the my rambling above, I consider Juliette, Wolfgang and the Puppet Master team as the most valuable additions to the Azur Alliance this saga.

Edit: added in a Wanderer/Summon section.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 07:11:23 PM by Zeru » Logged



Zeru
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2011, 04:02:24 AM »

Church

Saga 3 has been fairly generous to Church with 6 new characters. All of these characters range from solid, to extremely good. As a whole, Church really hasn’t gotten that much stronger in Saga 3 so much as they have gained more options, which has increased their list variety a great deal.

Strengths

Highest average resistance in the game, best support characters in the game, possess a hard-counter for just about everything.

Weaknesses

Lack of Ranged Firepower, hard-counters are generally limited to a single character, making them susceptible to focus fire, hard-counters are less effective when mismatched. Relatively high average character cost.


Marchosias

As the first optional leader in the game, Marchosias set a high standard with his impressive non-leader stat-line and strong snowballing potential. His Leader abilities are also fairly potent, buffing anyone within his CZ range, including himself.  All his special attacks hit all opponents engaged with him, and his power grows exponentially as he gains Slaughter Tokens.

However, in practice, Marchosias is much more difficult to use then he first appears.

Despite powerful AoE attacks, his small base size and lack of armor outside of Berserk make him difficult to use to full effect.  Securing Slaughter tokens can also be a problem, as he will often not be the one landing a killing blow on the enemy characters.

His non-leader point cost is also rather significant at 60 levels, making him difficult to take with Church’s relatively expensive Leader options. Marchosias is certainly a beast, but one that needs proper support to function at full efficiency. Thankfully, Church is filled with great support.

Synergy

First and foremost is Luzbell, her Mirror Jump ability gives Marchosias the mobility he needs to be where you need him the most. She allows him to freely disengage from tanks and easily engage any opponents foolish enough to be in range.

Gemini is also worthy of noting, as Zack’s AoE buff can give Marchosias Shield, increasing his toughness both in and out of Berserk.

Advantage Card

Orb of Power is a natural choice with Marchosias, due to the permanent nature of Slaughter Tokens and how difficult they are to gain.

Luzbell

 She is potentially the biggest game-changer for Church so far this Saga. Luzbell’s Mirror Jump offers unmatched mobility within her CZ, allowing her to engage and disengage however you please. This is probably more valuable to Church than any other Organization due to the hard-counter nature of many of their characters.  While Luzbell is on the board, it is impossible to keep any character to stay engaged unless you want them to be. This allows you to bypass tanks and engage who your characters are best against.

It isn’t all sunshine with Luzbell however, as outside of Mirror Jump, most of her other abilities are effectively worthless. Divine Shield has extremely limited utility, Divine Cut is a low-damage attack you can only use once a turn, and Holy Reflection is expensive and will only really see use if you opponent is silly enough to forget about it.

All that said, Luzbell is more than worth it simply because Mirror Jump is that good, especially since she is only 40 levels.

Synergy

Matches well with basically any melee character that Church has to offer. Maria especially benefits from Mirror Jump, due to her bonuses being limited to a single target. Luzbell makes engaging the desired character an easy task.

Advantage Card

Presence is ideal if you can afford it, as it increases the effective area of Mirror Jump. If not, Luzbell performs fine without an Advantage Card, or a simple Clock of Chronos.

Gemini

Gemini is one of the best characters Church has gained this Saga. Zack offers unparalleled group buffing skills while Zafini makes them a dangerous pair in melee. This combo creates a very flexible character that is far less vulnerable then one would expect for such a powerful support character.

Gabriel is the strongest ability Zack possess, allowing you to pick and choose who gets what buff within their CZ. This means you can Shield your front-line, haste your backline (Gemini included) and heal your injured. This potent buff is worth using basically every turn you can afford to, to the point of nearly making his other two abilities obsolete. Azrael gives Critical Mastery to everyone in his CZ, with the added benefit of allowing basic attacks/charges to hit intangible characters. This buff isn’t really that powerful in comparison to his other two, simply because most Church characters are fairly accurate on their own, but it has some incredible potential when used in conjunction with Elienai’s Hand of God.

Uriel is situational, since Gabriel can give Haste to everyone. It is really for emergency situations when multiple characters are desperately low on AP in a bad situation. This immediate AP can be far more valuable than 4 points of armor when used at the right time, giving characters the AP they need to survive an attack, or allowing them to perform a special attack they were short on AP for.

Zafini has more of a secondary role, as Zack should be the Dominant Personality most of the time, but it is still an important role to play. Zafini makes engaging Gemini a dangerous proposition, with an 11/6 throw and a 2 inch 7/6 AoE attack. Meseguis also makes Gemini incredibly dangerous when low on health, potentially making them capable of instantly killing whoever injured them. Zafini’s ability to maintain Azrael is also quite impressive, allowing her to keep supporting the rest of the team while posing a significant threat herself.

I really don’t have anything particularly bad to say about Gemini, their only real weaknesses are low LP, and lack of instant healing.  Judging the best time to use each personality can be quite difficult as well, but when utilized properly they are an incredible asset for any team Church can field.

Synergy

Gemini and Luzbell form a powerful support combination that matches the Saint Council in utility. Luzbell allows Gemini to more effectively utilize whichever personality is dominant, either whisking Zack away from a dangerous opponent, or maneuvering Zafini in to AoE a cluster of enemies.  The combined buffing power of Zack and mobility options that Luzbell brings is an incredibly potent combination.

Advantage Card

I honestly recommend Clock of Chronos over anything else for Gemini, as it is useful to both personalities and gives you the ever important AP they may need to dodge an attack, or squeeze out Zemial in a tight spot.

Maria

Maria is another strong option for Church. She is a bit different from Church’s usually “bonus damage against x” style of characters, because she not only gets to choose her target, but also gets bonus Attack against them. Maria has a formidable set of abilities, she has 7/8 against her target, a +5 Attack, and a +2 Attack 2 inch AoE. Top any of these off with Death Incarnate, and she is the most accurate DR character in the game.

Death Puppets and the healing Power of Soul Hunter allow her to swing odds in your favor very rapidly, as killing her target gets you a ghost while healing 15 LP. This heal allows you to bulldoze through the opposition to score a kill without having to worry she will drop as soon as she finishes them. The Death Puppet ability is a strong one, allowing you to gain a significant numbers advantage with a single kill. The puppet may not have any durability, but if left unchecked the advantage in numbers will quickly end the game.

Maria’s primary weakness is that she has to choose a single target. This generally makes her a target to either be focused upon, or tanked by a non-target. A smart opponent will keep Maria’s target far away from her long enough to either tie her down or kill her. Maria isn’t particularly slow or fragile, but she can still fall under focus fire surprisingly fast. Unlike Konosuke/Macbeth, she doesn’t possess an ability that makes targeting her a bad idea, so it is a good idea to keep her protected while she does her job.

Synergy

I already mention Luzbell earlier, so it doesn’t really bear repeating here, but another great option is Grey.

He serves both as a tank for Luzbell, making more difficult to focus her down, and a support fighter, striking anyone that attacks her and lowering their LP to the point Maria gets her Death Incarnate bonus. This allows Maria to score kills without the risk of someone stealing them from her by accident.  If all else fails, his Life for Thine ability is certainly worth using on a powerhouse like Maria.

Advantage Card

Supernatural Devourer is good as it would allow Maria to take advantage of her high base attack/damage score against her target, giving her the potential to land 3 attacks on them in a single activation.  Raphael’s Gift is also useful if you’re having trouble keeping her healthy.

Grey

Probably the most cost-efficient tanking option for Church, Grey is a steal for 40 levels. He has fairly high base stats for his level and a potent set of abilities that make him much more “activate” with his AP then other tanks. Never underestimate the reach of Guardian; a 4 inch radius for intercept/shield actions is huge, making him ideal for covering multiple characters at once, especially if Grey has Final Protection activated. Lightning Retribution makes him a great support fighter, allowing him to punish anyone who ignores him to attack someone else. Exaltation is also a nice bump in stats when allies within his CZ are in danger, pumping him to Attack 6 and Defense 10.

My Life for Thine is absolutely invaluable within Church, as Grey is cheaper than just about anyone he will be guarding, making this ability extremely cost efficient.  The Promise may seem like a disadvantage at first, but with Characters like Maria, Marchosias and Xavier, it is actually quite advantageous, as it allows you to feed the kills to the characters who need them most.

His only real weakness is reliance on support to truly tank efficiently. Grey is tough at 16 LP, but he only has 1 Armor without any buffs. Thankfully, Church is loaded with ways to make him more durable.

Synergy

As a low-armor tank, Gemini and Evangeline are very important to making Grey function at full efficiency, bumping his Armor up to impressive levels. Luzbell is also quite good for maneuvering him into combat to allow him to utilize Lightning Retribution to its fullest.

As mentioned previously, “death-feeders” like Maria, Marchosias and Xavier all benefit from Grey’s inability to kill people, allowing him to freely attack them and ensuring the kill goes to them.

Advantage Card

Martyr is a great option for anyone you expect to die, and Grey should honestly be the first person to die on your team unless you screwed up somehow. A 5 LP AoE heal can be a huge benefit if he goes down after a drawn-out battle, bolstering your forces LP significantly.

I will note that Martyr does NOT trigger when using My Life for Thine, as it removes him from the game, thus not triggering Martyr's effect.

If Martyr isn’t to your taste, or you simply can’t afford it, Combined Combat is another great option, maximizing the effectiveness of Lightning Retribution while making Grey more difficult to kill.

Raphael's Gift, as always, is recommended on a tank if you expect him to stick around for a while.

Sarah Reinhold

The newest edition to Church, Sarah offers the cheapest support character they can use at 30 levels. Being a summoner also makes her a cheaper alternative to Hazael, who is significantly more expensive. She also provides a nice-anti range aura, which helps cover the Organization’s weakness in that area. Nathanial’s Incense is honestly a very impressive buff, effectively being an AoE Raphael’s Gift that has the added benefit of making people impossible to stun with throws.

I am doubtful of the usefulness of Stigmata, though I suppose it would work particularly well with Romeo and/or Xavier, especially if she is maintain her Incense buff. Nathaniel’s Hand is a very specialized ability, but one that can have devastating effect on the enemy team.  Being able to eliminate Nux from Valis or an enemy Hand of God can turn the tide of a battle quite easily. Just remember that it also effects allied Upkeep abilities, making it a double-edged sword for Church.

Synergy

Romeo and Xavier, due to their LP sacrifice abilities. Though she fits well with just about anyone do to her AoE heal and anti-range capabilities.

Advantage Card

Raphael’s Gift seems like a natural option to me, allowing her to freely use Stigmata and healing her 4 LP a round when maintaining Incense.  Presence is also a good option, as it increases the range of every ability she possesses.

Wanderers and Summons

The characters entered here are generally to improve on the areas the Organization lacks.

Belith

Belith expands Church’s summoning options to Dark, allowing them to field the Al’Djinn and Ahriman, an option they are otherwise missing. Her status effect abilities are also quite potent, especially since Church generally lacks straight debuffs.

Drake + Cennette

Drake and Cennette are another good option, as they benefit a great deal from Church’s support while offering them a strong couple of generalist Warriors, something Church usually lacks. Drake is quite a powerhouse when buffed, and Cennette is great at harassing enemy support due to her mobility.

Arias Vayu

Church is quite possibly the best Organization to use this summon in. The synergy of the Divine Meditation Organization Advantage, Elienai’s Hand of God and the Arias Vayu’s elemental crystals is off the scale. It turns a very powerful, but unreliable ability into an extremely powerful and reliable one. The ability to throw out four to six 6/4 -1 Armor, 2d10 attacks at both melee and range can be devastating to anyone; whittling away at their LP and AP simultaneously.

Wrath of Nature

Not so much as a normal summon, but Romeo + 2 Eruptions =  Shocked

Teams

Organization Advantage:  Your preference*

Marchosias (Leader) + Orb ofPower
Maria + Supernatural Devourer
Grey + Martyr
Luzbell
Gemini + Clock of Chronos
Damien/Justina (your preference) + Clock of Chronos/Piercing Weapons (character dependant).

This team seeks to maximize the usefulness of both Gemini’s AoE buffing capabilities and Luzbell’s Mirror Jump. Marchosias is excellent against multiple opponents and Maria is great against single targets. Grey can keep an eye out for whoever your worried about most, while the last slot can be filled by either Damien or Justina according to your preference.

The only thing I don’t like about this list is the possibility of Maria and Marchosias fighting over kills, as both require them to power up to some extent.

*Church’s Organization Advantages are flexible/generalist enough that you can basically take whichever you find most attractive at the time, with a few exceptions.

Organization Advantage: Divine Meditation

High Saint Elienai + Raphael’s Gift
Hazael + Familiar
Arias Vayu
Grey + Martyr
Luzbell
Azriel + Raphael’s Gift

This list is primarily focused around the synergy I mentioned before with the Arias Vayu. The combined capabilities of Elienai, Divine Meditation and the Arias Vayu alone make the offensive power of this list staggering. Azriel gives the list a good front-line warrior along with Grey to help hold the enemy in position while the Arias Vayu obliterates them. Luzbell’s job is basically to position characters were they are most useful. To be honest, I have yet to lose with this list.

------------------------


In Summary, I believe that Church has only gotten better since Saga 1+2. They have gained a cast of unique and powerful characters. The Organization’s capabilities have improved significantly with the addition of Luzbell, Gemini and Maria. All 3 of these characters are significant in their own way, bringing to Church something they didn’t have before.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 12:29:56 AM by Zeru » Logged



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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2011, 04:02:41 AM »

Empire

Of all the Organizations in Saga 3, I believe Empire has improved the most. They have received several potent support characters as well as a couple 12/16 characters.

Empire’s average mobility has improved a great deal, and having more potent support options have helped dampen or outright eliminate many of Empire’s traditional weaknesses.  Combat Mastery allows Empire to pierce through enemy defenses despite their lower Attack scores and still deal heavy amounts of damage.

Strengths: Highest average Armor/LP totals in the game, high base-damage abilities, Critical Mastery

Weakness:  Low average Attack/Defense attributes, lowest average resistance attribute in the game, vulnerable to anti-armor characters, more reliant on good dice rolls.

Lilith

Without a doubt she is one of the best Leaders in the game, standing shoulder to shoulder with the likes of Romeo and XII. While she is the most expensive Empire character, she is easily worth all 75 of her levels.

Lilith’s has an impressive Attribute line-up, from her 6 attack to her 4/5 AP regeneration, she possess some of the best stats in the game. She even gets bonuses to her defense against Ranged Attacks, making her all but untouchable from a distance.

She is a potent threat in almost every situation, whether at melee or range. She possesses a low-cost ranged attack with fairly good stats that also has chance of pulling its target into melee.  While it isn’t reliable for its pull effect, it allows Lilith to threaten any character within 16 inches, while simultaneously making the opponent sweat at the prospect of one of his characters suddenly being in the middle of your forces.

Lilith is easily capable of taking on multiple foes due Scorpion Blade, a cheap AoE attack that gives an additional die. While the damage isn’t particularly impressive, it will land fairly often since Lilith possesses Critical Mastery. At 3 AP, Lilith is quite capable of throwing this attack out every round.

Dream of Lust is more situational then the above two, but is quite impressive with 2x 6/8 attacks without any buffs. It a very strong attack, but will likely leave Lilith vulnerable due to its AP cost.

More impressive then her combat abilities, Lilith’s Archmage abilities are a huge boon for Empire. Bless in particular is extremely good, improving Empire’s lower base attack/defense attributes to average levels. It should almost always be up due to Lilith’s high AP regeneration and low ability costs. Don’t forget that Upkeeping Bless doesn’t count towards the once per turn Archmage ability limit. Lilith other Archmage abilities are equally impressive.

The ability to heal and increase resistance scores is invaluable to Empire. This both maximizes one of Empire’s greatest strengths (durability) and helps cover one of their greatest weaknesses (low resistance). Never forget that Protection is reactive, allowing you to save it for when you need it. Last but not least is Lilith’s ability to Seek with a monstrous bonus due to Spy of Light, increasing both the Seek chance and Range.

This set of abilities is why I mentioned that Azur Alliance teams don’t have a good match-up vs a Lilith led Empire team, she simply covers most of Empire traditional weaknesses while preying on one of Azur Alliance’s biggest weaknesses, reliance on Stealth.

Synergy

Macbeth, more or less because the two of them together will more then cover any support needs your team will have. Macbeth’s consecrate also helps buff Lilith’s already impressive stats, making her even more dangerous in combat. He also benefits a great deal from Lilith’s Bless and Healing Light abilities, making him far tougher than most people would expect.

Advantage Card

Supernatural Devourer is extremely potent on Lilith due to her relatively high attack attribute and the low cost of many of her abilities. she can afford to throw out 1-2 ranged attacks a round while still retaining the AP to defend and use her Archmage abilities with this Advantage Card.

Alternatively, Supernatural Weapon/Ultimate Weapon are both good ways to take advantage of Lilith’s high attack attribute. Which you choose will entirely be based on personal preference, but I prefer Supernatural Weapon between the two, as it is always on.

Tiamat

This guy has had a lot of translation issues when he was first spoiled; so many that we honestly weren’t sure how good he really was until a month or so after he was spoiled. In the end, Tiamat turned out to be a solid character that provides many unique advantages to Empire. His optional leader abilities are among the most impressive. A once per game CZ paralyze can be game-changing if used at the right time, and being completely immune to ranged attacks before moving makes him an excellent Shield character for other Empire characters, and it also makes it impossible to drain his AP before he is ready to move.

At 12/16, he is one of the two fastest characters in Empire. This combined with his melee range of 4 inches makes him excellent at harassing enemy support. This particularly rings true with Awe of the Forgotten, which is quite useful if you land it early in a round to Seal a particularly troublesome character.  Also keep in mind that tying down Tiamat is all but impossible, due to his speed and Prowler status allowing him to escape on a 4+

World of Wires is somewhat unreliable, but can be quite potent when it sticks.  Positioning enemies with characters such as Erika or the Black Lion can be quite devastating. This is also a good way to force the enemy away from your more vulnerable characters and onto your tanks. Even though it is once per game, Wires of Destiny are a level 3 haste, which should last you about half the game. If you cast it on turn 2 or 3 and Tiamat will be going at full power for most of the game

On the downside, while many of Tiamat’s capabilities are impressive in their own right, he doesn’t really do much damage himself, and many of his abilities force him to go early in the round, somewhat negating the usefulness of Perfect Defense in his leader form.

While His true power is impressive, I prefer Tiamat as a non-leader since he fits quite well into lists led by Yuri. I enjoy this particularly due to stacking Initiative bonuses.

Synergy

Basically any AoE character benefits from Tiamat’s presence due to World of Wires. This allows Tiamat to position enemies in your “kill zone” forcing them into unfavorable (for them) positions.

Advantage Card

A Clock of Chronos is probably the best fit with his abilities.

Macbeth

Even above Lilith, I think Macbeth is probably the biggest game-changer for Empire this saga. He brings so much to the table while still maintaining Empire’s strong tanking power. Along with Claire, I’d recommend you take Macbeth in most Empire lists.

From a straight tank aspect, Macbeth is fairly impressive with 28 LP, 5 Armor and a Defense of 10 vs ranged attacks, which is quite handy for a DR character. He is also capable of buffing himself and other with Consecrate and Immortal Breath. The latter is particularly useful for tanking purposes, as it allows him to keep his LP fairly high. Consecrate is a good general buff that covers all of Empire’s lower Attributes, buffing them a fair amount.

Offensively, Macbeth is fairly dangerous with a 6 base damage, a 2 inch AoE, and a 5/8 attack that makes him invincible for the round should he destroy his target. He also gets a passive +2 damage bonus against Dark characters, making him particularly deadly against the Azur Alliance and Samael.

Weapons of Azrael is one of the best Team Cards in the game imo. It makes Lilian’s Breath of Life a 4 inch radius, making it much more effective. Inspiration’s AP cost is reduced to 1 AP when she is in his CZ as well, making it possible for her to use Inspiration, Breath of Life and Charge in the same round if so desired. On Macbeth’s end, Sacred Assault makes it easier for him to reach melee combat, and Lilian’s Protector ensures no one is touching Lilian without going through Macbeth first.
Synergy

The most obvious one is Lilian, due to the power of their team card.
Lilith is another great option, due to the reasons I mentioned in her section.

Advantage Card

Raphael’s Gift, even more so then most tanks. With Macbeth’s Eternal Breath, Lilith’s Healing Light and Raphael’s Gift, he can heal a whopping 8 LP every turn.  This makes damaging Macbeth futile unless they focus their entire team on him, in which case he is doing his job quite well.

Iosara

Quite possibly the most unusual new character for Empire in Saga 3, Iosara certainly brings an interesting set of abilities to Empire’s usual line-up.  

Iosara is extremely mobile, not just because of his 12/16 movement, but because Wandering Shadow effectively lets him deploy anywhere he wants. While its appearances can be unreliable at times, it can be positioned anywhere you see fit. What makes Iosara unreliable also makes it unpredictable for your opponent, making it difficult for them to guard their support.

Iosara also brings an impressive amount of debuffing power to Empire. Crystal Fire has a slow, while The Three Fates causes Seal, Blind and Doom.  The Three Fates is particularly deadly, as three consecutive attacks plus a different status effect on each one is dangerous to just about any character. Iosara’s Death Bringer is a standard Empire low attack/high damage Ki ability, nothing too special, but still quite potent.

Aside from Wandering Shadow, Iosara’s Unborn abilities includes Specter and Power Absorption.
Specter allows Iosara to take risks you normally wouldn’t take, allowing you to sacrifice it to kill a target knowing it will “survive” the retaliation, sort of like a diet version of Samiel’s Undying State.

Power Absorption certainly has potential, acquiring a single ability from anything it kills has a lot of potential uses, just remember that Iosara needs to survive to make the most of this ability.

In the end, despite being a Warrior, Iosara plays very much like an assassin. You will often sacrifice it to eliminate a target at the potential cost of Iosara’s own life, just make sure that target is worth the cost.

Synergy

Iosara is more of a lone wolf due to its unique means of deployment, but it synergizes surprisingly well with Valentine. Valentine’s ability to “lock down” targets with In my Sights is useful for covering Iosara’s back when it goes for a kill.

Advantage Card

Clock of Chronos is almost mandatory on Iosara, as it is required to use the walk action then unleash the Three Fates in its target. Alternatively, Tempus Fugit could work when being used to boost Iosara’s free move, but is less flexible overall.

Erika

The phrase “Good things come in small packages” most certainly applies to Erika. She brings a surprising amount of offensive power for a mere 40 levels.  While her stat-line has all the usual trappings of being Empire (low attack/resistance) while lacking the usual strengths (Armor/LP), her offensive capabilities more than makes up for this.

Mjolnir is a great innate ability, better in some ways then Claire’s Gae Bolg. When Erika swings your opponent faces the dual threat of dodging the attack due to damage, but potentially being hit anyway due to a Critical Hit (Combat Mastery always recommended) and losing more AP and being thrown.
Due to this ability, Erika doesn’t need to use her abilities unless the situation calls for it, as her basic Attack and Charge actions will trigger Mjolnir just as well.

Outside of her Innate Ability, she also possesses a rather impressive ability set for such a low-cost character. Ka-Boom has a huge radius with a respectable Effect check, potentially forcing your opponent to burn some Gnosis to hang on to their AP.

Spin! Spin! Spin! Is a personal favorite, despite the Slow debuff on Erika, this ability is well worth using when the opportunity arises. The additional dice combined with Gnosis and Combat Mastery makes it quite possible for Erika to send 2-3 characters flying, draining their AP as well as displacing them in a single attack.

Taunt is rather limited in its use, being once per game, but its effect is quite potent. Being able to force the Berserk status at the right time can spell doom for any character it sticks on due to Empire’s high damage attacks.

I’d recommend her whenever you have 40 levels to spare, she may not be as durable as most of the Empire line-up, but when you have an Organization filled with anvils, it’s nice to have a hammer.

Synergy

Erika works well with any other offensive character in Empire’s line-up, particularly the Black Lion and Claire. Due to her ability to disrupt the enemy team and drain AP, she often leaves enemy characters out of position, out of AP and out of luck, ripe for a killing blow from the rest of your team.

Advantage Card

Clock of Chronos is once again highly recommended. Due to the slow debuff on her AoE, she will often require that additional AP in emergency situations. The Clock also allows her to perform devastating combinations such as a Charge followed up by an Attack action if the Charge doesn’t Crit, or vice versa if you’re already engaged and the Attack gets a Critical Hit. This makes it possible for Erika to force a character to run out of AP while softening them up for the rest of the team.

Talisman of Eriol is another good option, to help ensure you land that Critical Hit when you most need it.

Valentine

As far as Prowler characters go, Valentine is among the toughest, though still relatively fragile. She operates at a much closer range then Wissenschaft’s snipers, which puts her at greater risk. Despite this, she is an extremely good addition to any Empire team due to her range and lock-down abilities.
 
Infiltration is something that is completely unique to Valentine within Empire, giving her the ability to set up in the most favorable position for her abilities. Surprise Shot makes it so her attacks can’t be intercepted the round she comes out of Infiltration, making it the ideal time for her to utilize any of her potent ranged abilities.
Information can be extremely useful when you aren’t sure what a certain character may be packing, knowing whether a person has a Clock for that additional AP to dodge or attack can be invaluable.

Being only the second character with Stealth in Empire, Valentine is arguably superior to Vayl outside of his Team due to her superior range and deployment options. She even has a ranged slow with Execution that is arguably superior to Vayl’s Crumbling of Time.

As far as her other abilities go, Perfect Shot is extremely potent despite its relatively short range. A 10/4 -2 Armor is quite good, and even better if you get extremely close to the target for the bonus damage, making it a 10/8. While difficult to pull off at its optimal range, this ability is quite good even without the additional damage.
   
In My Sights is the ability I personally see the most potential with. Since it lacks a usage limit, Valentine could potentially toss it on 3-4 characters on the opposing team, threatening them with an attack should they attempt to move. While the Attack/Damage may not be impressive on its own, buffs from other sources can quickly make it a very scary proposition for your opponent to attempt to engage you, or even run away.

The way I see it, there are two ways to play Valentine. The first is as a traditional assassin, maneuvering her close to a target while hidden and unleashing Perfect Shot for massive damage. The second is as a lock-down character, using In My Sights to threaten the enemy team as the rest of your team closes in andthen using Execution to debuff enemies once combat begins. This latter is particularly useful in objective games, were characters are constantly moving towards a goal.

Synergy

Valentine works particularly well with anyone that can buff her Attack score to maximize the effectiveness of In My Sights. She also works well with high mobility characters like Iosara and Tiamat, either by supporting them with In My Sights, or teaming up on the enemy support using Perfect Shot.

Tiamat in particular can be useful for maneuvering the opponent into close range for Valentine to maximize her damage with Perfect Shot.

Advantage Card

What Advantage Card is best on Valentine depends on whether your using her as an assassin or as a Lock Down character.

As an Assassin, Valentine is best served by Clock of Chronos or Tempus Fugit, as both allow her to close in to the best range for Perfect Shot.

As a Lock Down character, Valentine can still use Clock of Chronos, but may be better served with Attack buffing Advantage Cards such as Nullem Lusec or Piercing Weapons. Nullem Lusec is only once per game, but when used at the right time Valentine can gain a truly monstrous Attack level, forcing your opponent to risk significant damage if they move. Alternatively, Gnosis is great if you are worried about counter-sniping while Valentine is unstealthed.

Wanderers

Empire doesn't possess any Summoners, and I'm pressed for space so I will be cutting the Summons section out from here.

Belith


For almost the exact same reason she is useful in Church. She brings the ability to Summon Dark aligned Summons to Empire as well as some respectable debuffing abilities. Since Empire lacks their own summoner, she is the only way to play Summons in Empire at this time.

Teams

Organization Advantage: Combat Mastery*

Lilith + Supernatural Devourer
Macbeth + Raphael’s Gift
Black Lion + Orb of Power
Claire + Clock of Chronos
Erika** + Clock of Chronos
Sophia + Gnosis

My personal favorite list for Empire at this time, it is probably one of the strongest lists in the game at this time. Lilith + Macbeth offer a fantastic set of support abilities while remaining very potent in combat. Black Lion, Claire and Erika are a trinity of powerful offensive characters that can easily blow through even the toughest line-ups fairly easily. Sophia’s attack/defense buffs combined with Bless and Consecrate can shoot a single character’s attack score to devastating heights. Black Lion’s For the Fallen at 11/11 (Bless + Consecrate + Offensive Analysis + Power Token) is almost guaranteed to kill a character if you roll well. This is to say nothing about Claire’s Eadgil Solaris or Lilith’s Dream of Lust.

*I can’t stress this enough, take Combat Mastery. It is superior to every other Organization Advantage Empire can take 95% of the time.

** A fun alternative I have yet to try, replacing Erika with Valentine gives this list some serious lock-down power due to how high her attack power can be buffed

Organization Advantage: Combat Mastery

Yuri + Raphael’s Gift
Macbeth + Raphael’s Gift
Lilian
Black Lion+ Orb of Power
Claire + Clock of Chronos
Odin + Talisman of Eriol

Team Card: Weapon’s of Azrael

This list has been another favorite of mine, and showcases how much of an impact Macbeth has on Empire’s Metagame. With the inclusion of Weapon’s of Azrael, this list is one of the toughest in the game with Lilian’s Breath of Life supported by Macbeth’s Eternal Breath. Inspiration is extremely potent due to how powerful the Charges can be on this list, particularly with the Black Lion and Odin, since they should have enough AP to follow up with a normal attack afterwards.

----

Overall, I feel Empire is probably the 2nd strongest Organization so far this Saga, which is a significant jump from being 2nd from the bottom in Saga 1-2.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 11:57:50 PM by Zeru » Logged



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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2011, 04:02:53 AM »

Samael

Saga 3 has treated Samael much like it has treated Church, not so much directly adding to their power as increasing their available options for list building. While Samael unfortunately stands as the Organization with the least new models this Saga, every single one of their new characters has brought something new to the table. This also leaves a lot of room for improvement whenever their line-up does catch up to the other Organizations.

In saga 1+2, it isn’t an exaggeration to say Samael was probably the strongest Organization at the time, with a heavy emphasis on flexible generalist characters and a couple of rather potent Organization advantages. Their position has dropped a bit due to the rise of Empire and Wissenschaft, but they are nonetheless still a very powerful Organization.

Strengths:  Well-rounded character selection, high average resistance, good support options, every character possess a ranged attack.

Weakness: complete lack of team cards, mystic heavy, expensive leader options.

Covel

As an optional leader, Covel probably has the biggest effect out of any of the current leaders in shaping the rest of his list. While he is still a very good summoner as a non-leader, I feel that he should almost always be fielded as a leader due to the significant number of bonuses he receives. This is especially true when you consider he is the cheapest leader Samael can field by 10 levels.

Covel is without a doubt the best summoner in the game, possessing all the necessary abilities to make a Summon heavy team not only viable, but extremely potent. His ability to place Bind tokens on his own summons allow you to keep them in play for the entire length of the game.  He also suffers no ill effects when his summons are destroyed, making it a fairly safe bet to take multiple. Empower will probably see a lot more use then his more offensive abilities if you play it right, but Dark Sun is extremely potent when used correctly.

Make sure to keep Covel at a safe distance, as despite his impressive set of abilities, he is still an extremely fragile character, possessing only 12 LP with a defense of 8. While he can sacrifice his summons to save his life, abusing this can quickly lead to the death of all your summons.

Synergy

If you want to run an all summon/summoner list, his sister Genma is the natural choice. With both of these characters in the party it should be fairly easy to field 4 summons to suit your needs, while being able to keep them on the board for the entire game.

If you want to run a more balanced list with Covel as the leader, characters that slow or stop enemies to allow Dark Sun to hit the mark are invaluable. Morrigan, Yuki, Bael, or some combination of the three is ideal.

Advantage Card

While I’d recommend Familiar on most summoners, that really isn’t the case with Covel most of the time due to Divine Presence. Instead, I’d recommend things that either keep him on the field (like Clock of Chronos), or Presence so he can use his abilities from a bit further away.

Nahimana

Nahimana brings some much needed non-DR tankiness to Samael. With 20 LP and 9 Defense, she is better suited for the job than anyone else currently released for the Organization.  Her offensive capabilities are respectable considering her level; possessing Critical Mastery in addition to a fairly high base damage. Her innate ability, Arc of Destruction, acts like a deterrent rather than a practical means to damage multiple enemies, but it can be surprisingly dangerous if the enemy carelessly allows her to utilize it. An 8/12 move speed also makes her faster than Samael’s other tanky characters (Morrigan and Konsuke) as well as cheaper.

Her special charge is very good, being the same cost as a normal charge with the additional benefit of a throw. This allows Nahimana to disengage enemies from the rest of your team, allowing typically ranged heavy Samael lists to continue throwing out their attacks. Nahimana’s own ranged attack is fairly short range, but has a nice multi-hit mechanic that is especially useful when bouncing it off enemy DR.  Supernatural Mastery also makes it a credible threat at long range.

Spirits’ Wrath is definitely Nahimana’s identifying ability, an extremely powerful anti-debuff ability that gives her lvl 3 Berserk. This makes Nahimana very difficult to lock-down despite her relatively low Resistance score. Being able to self-berserk as a reactive action can also be quite powerful when combined with her throw charge or when she manages to base multiple enemies.

Synergy

The most readily apparent is Aoi, who is a must have in most Samael lists. Coral makes Nahimana as tough as many of the tankier DR, except with the ability to dodge. She also makes it much easier for Nahimana to utilize Spirit’s Wrath, as Coral allows her to be tanky even without the ability to dodge, and can remove Berserk if it becomes a problem.

Advantage Card

Raphael’s Gift is standard on most tanks, and Nahimana isn’t an exception. When utilized in conjunction with Aoi’s buffs, Nahimana can heal ¼ (5) if her LP every round, making it impossible to wear her down.

Momiji

I was quite pleased when Momiji was finally released, as she covers basically the only role Samael was missing in Saga 1-2, a stealth prowler. Momiji is well equipped in her assassin role, with a speed of 12/16 (unique in Samael) in addition to her ability to become Hidden. She can perform her job with either her 11/5 hidden charge, or her un-dodgable ranged attack.  Supernatural Mastery is a great advantage if you want to enhance the usability of Maboroshi Shuriken as well, since it is extremely short range.

She also has some excellent escape options with Kagebunshin and Kage Kitsune, the former making her less suicidal then most assassins, and the latter making terrain/escapes a non-issue.

Synergy

Her role as an assassin makes her a rather independent character, capable of functioning without the help of others, but she still benefits from Janiel’s Mark of the Einjiel like every other Samael character. This is especially true with Maboroshi Shuriken, which has no innate accuracy bonus.

Advantage Card

Clock of Chronos is the most immediately useful card for Momiji, even more so then most prowlers. Kagebunshin is a great fail-safe ability, and Clock makes it easier to get away with assassination attempts.

Alternatively, Destiny is a good choice if you plan on utilizing Maboroshi Shuriken to snipe low-LP characters. Tempust Fugit can also be extremely potent for those 20 inch Tsukinoiri charges.
Other prowler staples like Nue and Nephiros aren’t bad choices either.

Yuki

Probably the most unique addition of the new Samael characters, Yuki has some potent abilities for her low level. Her inability to move normally is a severe liability, but Tree Frost really should only need to be used once to get her into the most optimal position to utilize her abilities. Absolute Zero can be absolutely devastating if you manage to land it on the enemy team. A risky, but potent, strategy is having her Tree Frost at the end of a round into the enemy team and attempting to land Absolute Zero on your first activation in the next round.

Ice Splinters is a token 5/4 ranged attack, but I would honestly recommend utilizing Blizzard almost exclusively over it. Blizzard is surprisingly potent when utilized correctly, and has a very high base effect. A triple debuff that slows and halves the enemy’s speed and range can be used to great effect, especially since it can be done 20 inches away.

Nonetheless, Yuki is a fairly niche option within Samael that needs specific types of teams to best utilize her strengths.

Synergy

Leader Covel is an obvious choice due to Dark Sun, with the aforementioned Tree Frost + Absolute Zero maneuver, it is possible that the game could end on that very round if you abuse Covel + Al’Djinn clones to bombard the enemy team.

Morrigan is another good match, as both can slow the enemy team to a crawl with their respective abilities, while Morrigan can tank anything that attempts to close on Yuki. Yuki in turn can Blizzard any opponents who attempt to wear down/evade Morrigan from range.

Advantage Cards

My recommendations would be Control Bound or Fate Clock. Control Bound makes it nearly impossible to resist Absolute Zero and Blizzard, while Fate Clock is for when landing Absolute Zero takes priority over Yuki’s safety.

If you want to go with a safer approach, Afterimage is a good option if you are expecting a lot of enemy ranged firepower.

Wanderers and Summons

Bella + Aqua

One of the most easily recognized synergies in the game. Bella + Aqua don’t necessarily bring anything unique to Samael, but are a ridiculous bargain if you are already utilizing Innate Mystics, making these two a steal at 45 points. Bella’s flexible nature also fits Samael fairly well, while Aqua has some fairly strong abilities for a character who is basically free.

Ahriman + Al’Djinn + Arias Vayu

Thanks to Samael’s potent summoner choices, almost every powerful summon released in Saga 3 meshes well with the Organization. All three of the above characters benefit from Samael’s most popular advantages (Supernatural Mastery and Innate Mystics), while being a potent force in their own right.  The beauty of these 3 summons is that they can be used interchangeably since they share identical point costs in their Major forms.

The Ahriman is probably the best all rounder of the three, possessing fairly solid durability in addition to powerful ranged attack and close combat capabilities. He is also the least complicated to utilize, I highly recommend him if you’re looking for some beefiness in a standard Samael list.

Al’djinn is particularly abusive when used in conjunction with Covel and Yuki, allowing you to throw out 2-4 Dark Sun’s in a single round, blanketing the entire enemy team. Otherwise, spamming Ash Slaves to chump block the enemy while denying them gnosis is also entirely viable.

Arias Vayu is great when buffed by Covel and Supernatural Mastery, increasing the range and attack power of both her crystals and herself. Aim for her 4x ranged attacks as often as possible to get the most benefit from her capabilities. Janiel also gives a huge boost to the Arias Vayu’s ranged firepower.

Teams

Organization Advantage: Innate Mystics

Covel (Leader)
Ahriman
Ahriman
Arias Vayu
Arias Vayu
Genma + Familiar
Janiel/Sophia

Plot: Power Source

Probably one of the most brutal lists you can utilize with Covel. Since Covel can only buff his own summons, I’d keep the Arias Vayu bound to him since they benefit the most from his offensive buff, though swapping their position with the Ahriman has its advantages due to the nature of Shock and the front-line status of the Ahriman.

Covel and Genma should be able to keep their summons in the game almost indefinitely by alternating bind tokens, though Genma has to spend AP to do so, hence Familiar.  Janiel/Sophia is there to buff the summons’ offensive ability and to give an extra body for activations. The Ahriman are the front-line, and should be able to hold it quite well with fire support from the Arias Vayu, the ranged power of the list is quite fearsome between the Arias Vayu and the Ahriman’s AoE attacks.

Power Source is there to keep things going smoothly so you can keep up a consistent barrage of attacks.

Organization Advantage: Supernatural Mastery

Covel (Leader)
Morrigan + Supernatural Devourer
Al’Djinn (Major)
Nahimana  + Raphael’s Gift
Aoi + Presence
Yuki + Fate Clock

Plot: Tactical Advantage

This list was mostly an exercise in fielding Morrigan without abusing Innate Mystics. Covel can take a more offensive role, using Dark Sun to block an enemy out of an area or hit anyone too slow to escape its radius. Morrigan and Yuki should keep the enemy nice and slow so you can pepper them from a distance and prevent them from getting to your back-line. The Al’Djinn can either copy the enemies’ characters, or create a wall of Ash Slaves to tie down the enemy. You can also utlize the gimmick I mentioned earlier of cloning Covel and placing a couple of Dark Suns just to make the enemy regret being stuck in place. Replacing the Al’Djinn with a Major Ahriman, or the Arias Vayu, is a perfectly viable option as well.

Organization Advantage: Supernatural Mastery

Ophiel + Supernatural Devourer
Nahimana + Raphael’s Gift
Momiji + Clock of Chronos
Konosuke + Raphael’s Gift
Bael + Control Bound
Aoi + Clock of Chronos

Just a solid overall list that is extremely tanky by Samael standards. Supernatural Mastery increases the effective range of all the characters by a huge amount, making it easier to utilize some of the stronger short range attacks and Bael’s debuffs. Aoi will generally throw Coral on Ophiel or Nahimana, but Konosuke can just as easily benefit from it.
 Bael with Control Bound is incredibly dangerous to just about anyone, especially when Ophiel, Momiji and Konosuke are around to take advantage of anyone who gets paralyzed. Handing out the Seal status effect like candy can also seriously hamper the enemy team.
Momiji is there to assassinate enemy support or finished of weakened characters.
A front line consisting of Ophiel, Nahimana and Konosuke speaks for itself.


-----------

Overall, Samael’s list options have increased significantly with their new characters. It is also the only Organization that gained a leader that introduces an entirely new type of list. While they are no longer top dog, they still have a monopoly on the Ranged game and the general flexibility of most of their characters makes list building easy and varied.

I feel Covel is without a doubt the best new addition for Samael. Nahimana is a simple, but extremely solid choice for any Samael list that needs some solidity in their front-line.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 06:04:12 AM by Zeru » Logged



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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 04:03:11 AM »

Wissenschaft

I will say this outright, in Saga 3, only Empire even comes close to having the line-up that Wissenschaft possess. Every single character they have received this Saga are among the best at their point cost and have strengthened Wissenschaft to the point they are easily the strongest overall Organization at this time. In objective games, Wissenschaft has no equal. Their weaknesses are almost non-existent and their strengths are some of the best you can possess in this game.

Strengths

Highest mobility in the game, strong anti-armor capabilities, and powerful Leader options, all non-gear characters can take 2 Advantage Cards.

Weaknesses

Lack of utility and low average durability, both of which all but absent when using The Process.

Zero Sigma

The Zero Sigma is easily the most mobile leader in the game with a 12/16 speed + Flight. It isn’t just fast either, it also possess a very strong attribute line-up that is superior to most other leaders in the game.

Its special abilities are also very impressive and flexible in nature. A melee range paralyze with a powerful follow-up attack, a ranged AoE attack, a 10/6 melee range throw, and an extremely powerful 5 AP charge. With the three of these abilities can be enhanced due to the Zero Sigma’s power tokens, it is more than worth its point cost.

The only real downside the Zero Sigma has is that it is competing for the leader position in an Organization that possess two of the best leaders in the game, both of which can be cheaper than it. It also can’t take an Advantage Card due to its Gear nature, and doesn’t benefit from The Process.

Synergy

The Zero Sigma works well in almost any list due to its flexible nature, but like all gears it benefits a great deal from Fate’s presence. She gives the Zero Sigma a way to heal and regain extra AP, as well as a buff to its already potent ranged AoE attack.

Valis

I believe I can safely say that Valis is easily the best optional leader currently in the game. Her stat and ability line-up are impressive at her point cost without even considering Nux. Nux itself is a broken ability that basically defines Valis despite her other potent abilities. All Valis has to do is stand near the enemy team to severally debuff them with no real way to counter it other than killing Valis herself.

I prefer Valis as a non-leader simply because the best thing about her doesn’t require her to be a leader, and the other leader options in Wissenschaft are too good not to take in conjunction with her. Simply put, her value as a non-leader is incredibly high, so much so that her leader option is more of a detriment than an advantage due to its additional costs.

Synergy

The entire Organization benefits just from having her near the enemy team. There is almost no team that wouldn’t be better with her in it.

Advantage Card

Presence is the most obvious choice for increasing the radius of Nux, you can also use Clock of Chronos in case of emergency situations.

Theurgia

At its core, Theurgia is the melee Gear that many players have been waiting for. While it isn’t very durable when compared to most DR, its offensive capabilities and Attack are fairly impressive.  While I could argue it is the least impressive addition to Wissenschaft’s line-up in Saga 3, that still means it is really good.

Since Theurgia has 4 different pilots I’ll talk about them each briefly:

Yue Alfonse probably makes the best use of Theurgia’s innate abilities with Hunter, allowing you to mark a target and have Theurgia Overdrive + X Buster the unfortunate soul. This combo can be extremely devastating to basically anyone due to Theurgia’s high base stats while in Overdrive.

Hiro can be quite effective, but I personally feel he is inferior to Yue simply because Overdrive is best utilized in combination with X Buster, and Hiro’s Finisher directly conflicts with that. One is a 16 inch charge 9/7 with a 7/7 follow-up attack, while the other is a 11/11 melee attack. Theurgia already possess a +4 Attack ability, so your paying an awful lot for a once per game Critical Mastery with a +4 damage attack.

Elfriede Alder will be the go to pilot for most players due to cost. At 55 levels this pilot is by far the easiest to fit in a list. While Alder possess no unique traits, 3 AP with Theurgia’s base abilities is still quite effective.

Last and least is Edgard Ivanesku, who is only 5 points cheaper then Alder. I would almost never take this pilot simply because the cost difference is minor for losing 1 AP, which can be crucial.

Synergy

Once again, Fate is the natural choice. The +1 Defense from having her on the team in addition to her ability to give AP/LP is invaluable to the front-line Gear.

Hiro

In my opinion, Hiro is probably the best 50 level warrior in the game, surpassing even the likes of Dark Cheshire and Drake. He has a fairly impressive set of attributes along with access to The Process Organization advantage. All of Hiro’s abilities throw with the exception of Ultra Finisher, and possess an exceptional attack bonus.

Hiro’s only downside is Posing, which really only serves to balance out his extremely potent kit. There are several ways to get around Posing as well, mostly revolving around having Hiro throw people into walls to finish them off. This can be tricky, but it’s quite doable.

Hiro can be used to disengage dangerous enemy characters or assassinate their support with his speed and Rider Kick. With a Process Shield, he serves as a fairly impressive tank as well, with 10 Defense and 4 Armor.

Synergy

Hiro is an all rounder that doesn’t really require outside support due to The Process. He works well with Wissenschaft’s ranged units simply because it is fairly easy for him to keep enemy units away with his throw heavy move set.

Advantage Cards

Hiro works best when using Advantage Cards that counter-act Posing. Clock of Chronos is a standard one, but Nephiros works even better if you expect Hiro to be landing a lot of finishing hits. Clock has the additional use of allowing Hiro to Rider Kick a character then follow it up with Ultra Finisher, which should kill most characters.

Special mention to Hiro’s exclusive advantage card: “Red Theurgia Go!” It has a fairly potent effect in summoning a level 65 Gear onto the battlefield to replace and injured Hiro, but possesses an equally potent price tag. I would avoid it for the most part, but if you run Lost Loggia and are willing to spend the extra points, it can be a fun gimmick.

Fate

Her level might as well just automatically be added to any list using Gears, because she is mandatory to run an effective Gear list. Fate’s normal abilities and stats are relatively unimportant except for Mini Gear. Her second card, Modifications, gives a huge buff to every non-unique Gear in Wissenschaft.

Light Marker, Nanomachines and Command System are all incredibly useful utility abilities that enhance the performance of every Gear. Light Marker is particularly impressive when you are fielding Grimorium type Gears, which also get +2 Attack from Technofairy.  Keep in mind Light Marker only cost 1 AP, so it can be abused judiciously if you have Goethia to strike multiple targets.

While you could get away with running Theurgia or Goethia without Fate, it is a crime to take Grimorium without Fate due to how much she buffs that particular Gear. +2 Attack is incredibly power for Grimorium as its only real issue is its inability to hit targets despite its immense damage. If the target gets hit by Light Marker then a standard Grimorium can throw out a 9/12 Exodia Cannon shot, which is one of the strongest ranged attacks in the game.

Synergy

Considering her entire existence revolvers around Gears this should be fairly obvious. As noted above, Grimorium in particular is a stand-out.

Advantage Card

Presence is useful as you would expect on a support character. If you really feel like you never want the enemy to resist Light Marker you can take Control Bound and laugh.

Wanderers and Summons

Due to Manipulation, Wissenschaft can abuse Wanderer’s more than most Organizations. Although you lose out on The Process when utilizing this Advantage, it can be well worth it if you spend your points well.

Drake + Cenette

The Process or Manipulation both work well with this pair. Cenette fits Wissenchaft’s usual stat-line fairly well, and Drake gives you a brawler style character. The Process benefits both characters a great deal, but Manipulation is useful if your wanting to fit them in along with another Wanderer, as their team card makes it so they only take up 1 slot.
Belith

Before the advent of Valis, Belith was the only way to take summons in Wissenschaft lists. Even now, Belith is still a fairly good choice due to her low price point combined with her debuffs and summoning abilities.

Al’Djinn

If your fielding Valis with XII, there is no more of an abusive summon then the Al’Djinn. Being able to have 2-3 XII’s on your team for 2+ turns can easily end a game within that time frame, especially with Valis’ own abilities.

Ahriman

As always, the Ahriman is a great combat summon to take. This is even more apparent in Wissenschaft, since there is nothing stopping it from taking advantage of The Process to improve its toughness.

Teams

Organization Advantage: The Process

XII + Raphael’s Gift or Piercing Weapons (preference)
Hiro + Clock of Chronos or Nephiros (preference)
Lorenzo + Orb of Power
Valis + Familiar
Al’Djinn
Sophia + Gnosis

A strong team I threw together to showcase some of the more potent aspects of Saga 3 Wissenschaft.
2xXII is incredibly potent, as mentioned earlier. Hiro and Lorenzo give you some very powerful alpha-striking capability. Valis just has to stand around with Nux to be effective, but can also fire off distance attacks, or engage as necessary. Sophia is primarily there to buff the multi-hitters in the list. XII(x2) and Lorenzo benefit a great deal from her presence.

Organization Advantage: The Gear Project

Legacy (Valeria Strauss)
Theurgia (Elfriede Alder)
Grimorium (Fredrick Mausser)
Goethia (Edgard Ivanesku)
Fate (Presence)
Sophia
Plot: Power Source

A fairly powerful list that is only possible thanks to the Fate. Legacy is a powerful center piece to the list that doesn’t have to go in alone with the arrival of Theurgia. Grimorium and Goethia will spend the game bombarding the opponent while Fate and Sophia buff the rest of the team. Just to throw out some numbers, it is possible for Grimorium to throw out a 13/12 Exodia Cannon shot from 16 inches away with Fate and Sophia buffing him, which would devastate just about any character in this game.


-----------------

In summary, Wissenschaft is likely to remain fairly dominant for the rest of this Saga unless their future releases turn out to be sub-par and every other Organization receives some impressive new characters to match the Wissenschaft releases.

----------------

Took me a while to get this all written up, but its finally done. I plan on working on a post for Black Sun at some point, so look forward to that in the future. As more characters come out, I will update the respective Organization section as needed.
I might need to trim some stuff out, particularly in the Empire section, to create room though.

On one final note, keep in mind player skill can always change the outcome of any Anima: Tactic game. I don’t believe there is a single “unbeatable” list in this game, just ones that offer significant advantages, so keep that in mind when absorbing what I wrote above.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 07:17:00 PM by Zeru » Logged



TenNoBushi
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2011, 08:24:59 AM »

Quote
d)   (not so)Absolute Defense, due to its wording, does not defend him against Ranged Attacks. This makes him a prime target for ranged focus fire as soon as he activates it. This is particularly bad when facing off against Wissenschaft, or Samael.

According to HELS faq, Absolute Defense allows Claude to dodge Ranged Attacks.

Quote
12. Claude.

Con su habilidad defensa absoluta que le permite realizar contras gratuitas… ¿se
puede defender de un ataque a distancia?

Puede.
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Zachilles
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2011, 09:13:32 AM »

I'm excited to see your thoughts on Church and Black Sun, your obviously much more experience with Anima than I am and I just want to see how our thoughts line up.
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sAdam
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2011, 09:55:01 AM »

In a Spanish Edge Days Spoilers thread was mentioned lightening themed guy with ability to ignore armor. If he shows up in Sage 3 he hill improve Azur's chances against Wissenschaft.

@TenNoBushi Are rules from HELS faq official rules?

@Zeru Thanks for hard work. Ehh I'm well too aware of Azur low survive-ability. It wouldn't be so bad if there was less seek enhancing abilities(with exception for Wis,  they are always pain in the neck , God I hate Gears Tongue ).
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« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2011, 11:02:36 AM »

Quote
d)   (not so)Absolute Defense, due to its wording, does not defend him against Ranged Attacks. This makes him a prime target for ranged focus fire as soon as he activates it. This is particularly bad when facing off against Wissenschaft, or Samael.

According to HELS faq, Absolute Defense allows Claude to dodge Ranged Attacks.

Quote
12. Claude.

Con su habilidad defensa absoluta que le permite realizar contras gratuitas… ¿se
puede defender de un ataque a distancia?

Puede.

They likely made the change due to how bad Absolute Defense is without that. That helps Claude somewhat, though my other points stand.

It would be really nice of the HELS faq was translated into English, we keep only getting bits and pieces here.

Feel free to chip in any FAQ stuff I may have missed/am unaware of when I update the post with the other Organizations.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 11:08:42 AM by Zeru » Logged



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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2011, 11:12:57 AM »

It would be really nice of the HELS faq was translated into English, we keep only getting bits and pieces here.
Agreed. It would be nice to get some official cross-language support for the game, especially with so many big changes/corrections for recent characters.
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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2011, 11:23:33 AM »

Zeru maybe you should add one more section for Wanderers and Summons.  Many of them are having a big impact and don't quite get the exposure that many of the characters from the Org get.

-ape2020
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« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2011, 11:35:50 AM »

Might do it as a separate thread Ape2020, Wanderers and Summons are quite broad in their effectiveness/role, so it would require a different approach then I'm taking here. There are also far fewer Wanderer/Summons then Organization members, so they will probably end up lumped together.

Al'Djinn, Arias Vayu are basically the only real Saga 3 summons (technically Ahriman and Alius too I suppose, if we go by the rulebook) so far, as the Nature's Wrath hasn't been released yet.

Wanderers we have are Drake, Cenette, Kagemaru, Bella + Aqua and the Shinobi.

It is a pretty small selection when you look at it, so I might end up adding a small section to each Organization to mention what Wanderers work best where.
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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2011, 11:48:48 AM »

Nah I figured they would all be clumped together anyways to make it worthwhile.  Its just with Org play being so dominant and more and more org units filling out them I wondering if wanderers will become more and more overlooked.  Plus summons scare others with all their extra rules and risks to be used much.

Sorta of why I'm on a Summon Creature spree in the homebrew section. 

-ape2020
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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2011, 11:52:00 AM »

Wanderers aren't being overlook. Wanderers were never meant to be an Organization of their own. They will continue to be just a secondary option for one to pick with organizations.

Of course, they did give us a wanderer leader but it really only is another optional leader for the organizations.

I don't ever expect to see the wanderers becoming like the Organizations so don't hold your breath.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 11:53:55 AM by Hiro » Logged



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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2011, 12:02:24 PM »

Hiro that is not what I'm saying.  In the early days many of the Org had glaring weaknesses and wanderers helped fill those roles.  Empire speed and resistance, Azur stamina and buffing, Wiss strength and toughness, etc, etc.  As we get more units for each org that fill those weaknesses the need for Wanderers gets smaller and smaller and smaller. Few list except by maybe newbies starting out and testing which way to go have wanderers in it and few still will as more org units come out.  In a way the whole concept of Wanderers is in danger of becoming obsolete. 

-ape2020
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