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[Lia Valenth]

There is far too little information on both of them. Also I do not understand the question.

[Kalis]

Aura extension costs 20 MK, 40 MK is an universal prerequisite required for everything. And also Aura Extension is a must have unless we want our char to be unable to defend from magic badly.

Situation I have now (test module, so levels are high for insurance).
Lvl 9 Weaponmaster. 1400 DP total, 840 Combat, 700 evenly on Attack + Block = 175+45 = 220+Dex. Weapon is Taurus with Aura Extension+Increased Damage, Str 11. 180 damage.
Lvl 9 Wizard Pow 8 Int 14. 1400 DP total, 840 magic. 400 MA + 440 MP = MA x9 (135) MP 220+Dex. Shield of darkness/light is 130 Zeon max which is 1100 hp.

As for me situation looks like "if your shield gets hit then you must renew it (consequences of broken shield is 100% damage remaining without modifying it as with normal attacks, which is harsh), and if your shield fails you die". And actually Wizard have to max Initiative and force Weaponaster to go on defensive. Am I missing something?

At 14 int, the wizard puts up an Advanced Degree Perfect Shield and has triple life points from Metamagic. The shield has 1500 life points and regenerates them all every round. The wizard has the shield at all times and maintains it for like 25 zeon a day.

Then at level 10 the wizard gains another point of Int and the weapon master can't beat him without open rolling twice.

[Zeru]

First off, that Wizard has Abysmally low Power, it should at least be a 12 so you get the additional MA, which makes a huge difference.

Also, they should either be using multiple shields or a very powerful Royal Shield by that level. Metamagic also makes Perfect Shield incredibly abusive.

Also, the initiative of a Weapon Master using Taurus should be a lot ower then the Wizards.

And as Kalis said, shields are passive, you don't need initiative to put them up.

[Lizbeth]

At 14 int, the wizard puts up an Advanced Degree Perfect Shield and has triple life points from Metamagic. The shield has 1500 life points and regenerates them all every round. The wizard has the shield at all times and maintains it for like 25 zeon a day.

Then at level 10 the wizard gains another point of Int and the weapon master can't beat him without open rolling twice.

I don't have Arcana Exxet (or core exxet) as for now, so currently following the core shields are this weak and maintainable on per round basis.

First off, that Wizard has Abysmally low Power, it should at least be a 12 so you get the additional MA, which makes a huge difference.

Also, they should either be using multiple shields or a very powerful Royal Shield by that level. Metamagic also makes Perfect Shield incredibly abusive.

Also, the initiative of a Weapon Master using Taurus should be a lot ower then the Wizards.

And as Kalis said, shields are passive, you don't need initiative to put them up.

How should he get power 14 if starting 10 and even level stat points go to Int because it affects spells known and maximum Zeon per spell?

Is it possible to overstack shields?

Init required to strike first and put weaponmaster on defensive, not to place shield.

[Zeru]

That is why I said at least 12 power. 

There is nothing preventing shields from being "layered." You can maintain both Shields at once, you just can't use more then one to block a single attack.

So the theoretical weapon master could attack once, Shield 1 blocks it, and when the weapon master attacks again, Shield 2 can be used to block.

Of course, this isn't really necessary with a sufficiently empowered Perfect Shield, or a extremely powerful Royal Shield.

[exarkfr]

Shield of darkness/light is 130 Zeon max which is 1100 hp.

Isn't maximum Int*20 ?
14 * 20 = 280 zeon max
280 - 50 (base cost) = 230 extra zeon, thus 23 extra effects
+100 hp per extra effect * 23 = 2300 extra hp
2300 + 300 (base hp) = 2600 hp    (note Core Exxet version is 3000 hp for 250 zeon at arcana level)

It will take 2600 / 180 = 14,44 attacks to destroy it.




Sure, magic shields can sometimes look weak. But comparing :
 - a wizard not using the best shields (Creation shields are better than level 10 Light/Darkness shields)
in melee with
 - a weaponmaster who invested 1 CP to be able to use Taurus by level 9
sounds like overkill to me.
Poor wizard

Just wait for Arcana Exxet to be able to compare a wizard making use of metamagic with a weaponmaster making use of ars magnus.  

[Lia Valenth]

How should he get power 14 if starting 10 and even level stat points go to Int because it affects spells known and maximum Zeon per spell?

Spells are one way. There are a lot of Daily Maintenance spells that increase stats. Another way is to start with 10INT and 10POW (Which is a prerequisite to being a wizard in a high powered campaign) and spend 2 increases on POW.

I don't have Arcana Exxet (or core exxet) as for now, so currently following the core shields are this weak and maintainable on per round basis.

1-Perfect Shield (Book of Creation level 60) is the only Daily Maintenance spell in the game and is in the base book.
2-As pointed out by exarkfr your calculation on the LP of shields is wrong.
3-If your comparing Base Book+Dominus Exxet for one character and Base Book+nothing for another it is not completely fair. The wizard would probably still win, but the Weapon Master has more options and therefore more possible power.
4-Core Exxet spell changes can be found http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=85&efcid=3&efidt=524929.

[Lizbeth]

That is why I said at least 12 power. 

But how? Forget about Int?

Shield of darkness/light is 130 Zeon max which is 1100 hp.

Isn't maximum Int*20 ?

I meant maximum we can afford in one round wit current MA.

Spells are one way. There are a lot of Daily Maintenance spells that increase stats.

Thanks for the tip.

1-Perfect Shield (Book of Creation level 60) is the only Daily Maintenance spell in the game and is in the base book.
2-As pointed out by exarkfr your calculation on the LP of shields is wrong.
3-If your comparing Base Book+Dominus Exxet for one character and Base Book+nothing for another it is not completely fair. The wizard would probably still win, but the Weapon Master has more options and therefore more possible power.

Creation 60 is not something you will use for every char. PC meeting yet another creation mage is ridiculous.

Yes, you are Zeru are right, comparing core wizard to core+dominus fighters is not fair. Can't wait for Core Exxet and Arcana Exxet translation.

[Kalis]

You don't need to be a creation mage. You are whatever you want, and you buy Perfect Shield individually.

[Lia Valenth]

Creation 60 is not something you will use for every char. PC meeting yet another creation mage is ridiculous.

Creation is seen often because it is the strongest defensive book of magic. Destruction is the strongest offensive book in the game. If you want to live long starting with Creation is a good idea, and likely most high level wizards started creation. Not because it was the only choice, but natural selection took over - those that did not had less defense and thus died long ago, far before reaching level 9.

[Zeru]

Aiming for 12 Power is fairly standard in my experience, the rest can go into Int as required.

You can also buy ML under Arcana Exxet rules the same way you can buy MK in Dominus Exxet, so Int isn't quite as important as a good Power score.

Also, Wizards live off of having multiple rounds to cast their spells, you either get a very high MA that allows you to cast a strong Shield instantly, or cast a weaker one to give you time to accumulate for stronger spells.

Wizards have any number of spells that help them delay/penalize their enemies, so it isn't like they are helpless with a Shield that will "only" last 3 rounds or so. Especially when their Initiative will be higher then a Weapon Master.

Also, keep in mind Weapon Masters excel at these types of fights in the same way Fighters in DnD hold a lot of advantages in fights that allow absolutely no preparation.

Quite simply, Weapon Masters don't have prep time, but Wizards are significantly better off if given even 2-3 turns to prepare for combat.

----

Also, as mentioned before, cherry picking Spells is always an option, unless you took a disadvantage that prevents it. This is especially true for higher level Wizards.

[Lizbeth]

Aiming for 12 Power is fairly standard in my experience, the rest can go into Int as required.

I checked my book and noticed that I actually used Pow 12 base MA value 15. So MA 135 is for Pow 12, and in case of lesser values there will be just 90 MA, which means even weaker shield.

You can also buy ML under Arcana Exxet rules the same way you can buy MK in Dominus Exxet, so Int isn't quite as important as a good Power score.

That's great rule. Good to see this issue fixed.

Also, Wizards live off of having multiple rounds to cast their spells, you either get a very high MA that allows you to cast a strong Shield instantly, or cast a weaker one to give you time to accumulate for stronger spells.

As I said before, currently wizard is limited to placing his shield over and over again because everything he can do with his per round MA is instantly drained.

Also, keep in mind Weapon Masters excel at these types of fights in the same way Fighters in DnD hold a lot of advantages in fights that allow absolutely no preparation.

Assumin we optimize Fighter in DnD have almost no advantages on high levels, because casters are more durable and better at everything. Even in endurance runs fighters hp ends faster than casters spellslots.

[exarkfr]

I checked my book and noticed that I actually used Pow 12 base MA value 15. So MA 135 is for Pow 12, and in case of lesser values there will be just 90 MA, which means even weaker shield.

What were the starting INT and POW of the character ? Where did he put his "level-up" bonus points ?

As I said before, currently wizard is limited to placing his shield over and over again because everything he can do with his per round MA is instantly drained.

Unless he keeps fighting opponents with impressive damage and doesn't try to move away, no.
His shield will last much longer than one round.

Even in your example, it would take more than 6 (albeit not by much) attacks from the weaponmaster to down the shield. With his Attack of 2XX, he can make 3 attacks per round. So 2 full rounds of attacks. Which means the wizard is staying within reach all this time.

Also note : there aren't many characters who can withstand that much treatment from the weaponmaster.
Many characters won't be wearing more armour than the wizard (and to wizard has spells to boost armour). Many characters won't have more hit points. And those characters will suffer from many penalties on their Dodge/Block that the wizard will not suffer.
In your example, many characters would just have the same hard time as the wizard.

[Lizbeth]

What were the starting INT and POW of the character ? Where did he put his "level-up" bonus points ?

Int 14 Pow 12 final, used all level-up points and some of the CP. I don't remember exact amount used.

[Korwin]

I sort of understand Lizbeth.
The only magic shield I look too, is the Perfect shield*. Not because it regenerates (thats nice great too), but because of the daily maintenance.
If you want your mage to live in an combat heavy Campaign. Learn perfect shield or buy up Dodge**.
Without Metamagic from arcana just use multiple shields.

Hoping to get an shield up, after ini is rolled but before you are hit... You will have an weak shield or none...


* or use some magic to become nondetectable. But that requires a specialiced Build and/or high Level.
** well dodge wont help you against the sample weaponmaster.