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[Zeru]

First of all, Wizards have any number of ways to escape from a Weapon Master's reach, thus avoiding the majority of the damage a Weapon Master can deal. If the Weapon Master lacks See Supernatural, he suffers the blinded penalty when defending against Spiritual Spells.

Second, Wizards has access to many spells that keep them out of harms way, not just Shields. A good Wizard can generally just play keep away with most of their opponents if they are that serious of a threat.

Third, as mentioned before, the Wizard is more likely to go first due to the penalties to speed that Weapons have, especially large weapons like Tauros. If the Wizard can go first, why aren't they doing something to prevent the Weapon Master from engaging them?

and finally, Wizards have access to much more flexible/destructive abilities then a simple Weapon Master. If the Weapon Master isn't winning a straight up brawl, what would their purpose be?

Supernatural Shields are one of the Strongest defenses in the entire game, not sure how anyone who has familiar with this sytsem would think otherwise.

[alphawhelp]

Supernatural Shields at low levels are strong, but the lack of a class bonus kind of hurts them.  IMO, the strongest defense in the game is actually Lama Tsu Arcane Degree + Erudition + Presence Extrusion.

[Zeru]

Lama Tsu Arcane Degree is also incredibly expensive to attain, especially for non-Tao, and has very high requirements. Also, someone with Lama Tsu still suffers other penalties to defense (such as positioning) that Supernatural Shields do not.

The lack of Class bonuses doesn't hurt them at all, as I pointed out, the Class bonus is so Warrior types can keep up with them, not the other way around.

[alphawhelp]

that's why I said Lama Tsu + Erudition, Dominus Exxet lets you use Erudition to negate flank penalties and reduce behind penalties to -10.

[Zeru]

True enough, though the point about Expense still stands. Not everyone is going to be mastering Lama Tsu, and only extremely high level characters are capable of learning it.

[alphawhelp]

Through all my massive amounts of powergaming the hell out of the system, the earliest level one can learn Lama Tsu arcane degree is level 11.  I have soundly determined anything earlier is impossible.

[Zeru]

Yeah, by dropping your Attack and maxing out your Dex you could get it that early.

[alphawhelp]

I don't actually count the dex bonus as part of that 300 attack, considering the dex bonus is liable to fluctuate, but by playing, say, a warrior, for levels 1-10, by spending 400 points in attack and 500 points in block, you end up with 250 attack 300 block, then for level 11, you spend 40 to class change to Tao, and then use the 60 remaining primary points to buy Lama and Lama Tsu at max degrees.

this requires going through levels 1 through 10 barehanded without any martial arts, though, not for everyone.  realistically, level 12 is more likely and doable with all 12 levels as Tao.

[Kalis]

Supernatural Shields at low levels are strong, but the lack of a class bonus kind of hurts them.  IMO, the strongest defense in the game is actually Lama Tsu Arcane Degree + Erudition + Presence Extrusion.

The strongest defenses in the game is actually Predetermined Projection Zen for a few high life Perfect Shields. At level 10, your defense roll is now always 440.

It is basically impossible to reliably beat and is always 440 even if you are flanked, surprised or asleep. This is due to it being considered the final result of your roll after all negative modifiers.

[Lia Valenth]

The strongest defenses in the game is actually Predetermined Projection Zen for a few high life Perfect Shields. At level 10, your defense roll is now always 440.

How that ability is read is important in how powerful it is. As I read it (mostly for balance), every time the wizard attack or defend the wizard has to pay the Zeon cost, so every time the wizard uses the shield to block an attack they lose 200 Zeon. It seems that how it officially is read you can spend 200 extra Zeon when you cast a shield and defend with a 440 as long as the shield is up. I don't like that way because it allows a wizard to spend +200 Zeon on a single Perfect Shield at Arcane Level (with x3 LP for 3000LP) and block every attack with 440 defense forever.

Unless, I suppose, you are dealt over 3000 damage in one round.

as for,

It is basically impossible to reliably beat and is always 440 even if you are flanked, surprised or asleep. This is due to it being considered the final result of your roll after all negative modifiers.

I also note that, unless the translation I have is wrong (and I suppose it could be) the wording
"Limits: The use of this ability does not support special modifiers, and always uses the value as a fixed final result. Thus, a character would not get the bonus of a Blessing or Offensive Erudition."

I emphasized for clarification - this is supposed to be a limit that weakens the power, not strengthen it. The question is what are "special modifiers"? In a game I GM, unless I find a better translation, I would have penalties apply.

[Kalis]

The strongest defenses in the game is actually Predetermined Projection Zen for a few high life Perfect Shields. At level 10, your defense roll is now always 440.

How that ability is read is important in how powerful it is. As I read it (mostly for balance), every time the wizard attack or defend the wizard has to pay the Zeon cost, so every time the wizard uses the shield to block an attack they lose 200 Zeon. It seems that how it officially is read you can spend 200 extra Zeon when you cast a shield and defend with a 440 as long as the shield is up. I don't like that way because it allows a wizard to spend +200 Zeon on a single Perfect Shield at Arcane Level (with x3 LP for 3000LP) and block every attack with 440 defense forever.

Unless, I suppose, you are dealt over 3000 damage in one round.

Thing is that, while I understand why you make that houserule, nothing in the translated text supports your interpretation. It says in the first sentence of the Game Effects that it is spent when you cast the spell, not when you use the attack.

as for,

It is basically impossible to reliably beat and is always 440 even if you are flanked, surprised or asleep. This is due to it being considered the final result of your roll after all negative modifiers.

I also note that, unless the translation I have is wrong (and I suppose it could be) the wording
"Limits: The use of this ability does not support special modifiers, and always uses the value as a fixed final result. Thus, a character would not get the bonus of a Blessing or Offensive Erudition."

I emphasized for clarification - this is supposed to be a limit that weakens the power, not strengthen it. The question is what are "special modifiers"? In a game I GM, unless I find a better translation, I would have penalties apply.

It says that it does not support special modifiers and is the final result. If you are surprised, the -whatever penalty is a special modifier, and your 440 is the final result after all modifiers(both positive and negative).

[Korwin]

Supernatural Shields are one of the Strongest defenses in the entire game, not sure how anyone who has familiar with this sytsem would think otherwise.

Oh, I agree.
Maybe its me only playing low level, but Perfect Shield is (for me) best by an large margin.
--> Compared to the other supernatural any shields.

[exarkfr]

Thing is that, while I understand why you make that houserule, nothing in the translated text supports your interpretation. It says in the first sentence of the Game Effects that it is spent when you cast the spell, not when you use the attack.

Not a translation problem.
It doesn't say how it works for spells that can be maintained.
 - For AoE spells (like fireball), it works wonder. Several targets with predetermined projection paid only once = very nice
 - Spiritual spells that are maintained require an Projection test only when cast, after that, it's resistance tests that are repeated.
 - Attack spells... can't find an example of an Attack spell that would be maintained and where the Projection test could be repeated... 
 - The "Air 50" (Automatic spell) targets every one in area with an final roll of 180 and is maintained, but it doesn't say that this final roll is a Projection roll, so it wouldn't work by strict reading
 - as for Defense spells, aside from shield, there's not many examples.

Defense spells are mentioned in the description of Predetermined Projection. Yet shields aren't cast with a Projection roll to begin with. Projection is rolled only when you use the shield to defend, and re-rolled every time you use it.

My reading would be that you could pay zeon only once to have a predetermined roll for all the duration. After all, it requires a hefty investment to get all those spheres. By the level you have them all (level 10 for the 7th one), maybe you should be able to pull that trick.

What could pose a problem :
 - there is a big jump between 6th and 7th spheres (320 -> 440)
 - Daily shields

It says that it does not support special modifiers and is the final result. If you are surprised, the -whatever penalty is a special modifier, and your 440 is the final result after all modifiers(both positive and negative).

I read it as "you don't roll, you use that final ability, nothing modifies that value"

[Lia Valenth]

Because it is not very specific I read it to mean that you had to pay 200Zeon every time you block the first time I read it. Because of Perfect Shield I will continue that interpretation, at least in my game. Without Perfect Shield (I believe the only daily-maintenance spell) I would have no problem with how everyone else reads it, but for game balance I will continue to read it as I did originally. However, for the purposes of the boards, I will consider this a HOUSERULE so as not to confuse people.

Secondly,

It says that it does not support special modifiers and is the final result. If you are surprised, the -whatever penalty is a special modifier, and your 440 is the final result after all modifiers(both positive and negative).

I read it as "you don't roll, you use that final ability, nothing modifies that value"

That is how I read it at first as well, but due to the word "limit", listing only bonuses, not penalties, and that it states, "Special Modifiers" instead of, "Special Combat Situations", I read that Special Combat Modifiers would affect it. This is definitely an interpretation, not a house rule, (unlike the first point about being used with shields) because there is evidence to this being the meaning or "spirit" of the rule, rather or not it is strictly RAW.

[alphawhelp]

I use the same houserule, Lia.