next »

[exarkfr]

Yeah, that daily shield is a real pain 


Just noticed something off in your previous post

I also note that, unless the translation I have is wrong (and I suppose it could be) the wording
"Limits: The use of this ability does not support special modifiers, and always uses the value as a fixed final result. Thus, a character would not get the bonus of a Blessing or Offensive Erudition."

Now, French text reads (not Spanish, so could be another problem)
"Limits: The use of this ability does not support special modifiers, and always uses the value as a fixed final result that is directly compared to the opponent's attack or defense skill. Thus, a character would not get the bonus of a Blessing or Offensive Erudition."

That "directly" is what makes me think you don't add anything good or bad. As there is no roll, nothing that would modify a roll modifies the predetermined value.
Just my interpretation, though.

Note : checking the predetermined attack and defense effects in Dominus Exxet... they don't mention applying any kind of modifier.
But DE is not AE, so...

[Kalis]

In a way, it almost as abusive at level 6. At level 6, you can predetermine you projection to be inhuman, reliable attack and defense mastery is still a level away for melee. So, the difference in ability can be over 120 between the spells and any attacks or defenses.

And while your houserule may help with the shield abuse, you can still get headshotted by beams and other attack magic way too easily.

GM: The enemy unleashes a Greater Mystic Bolt, it comes for your head.
Level 10 warrior: *rolls* Uh 360(around a 70)
GM: Do you happen to have 5 AT against energy on your head
L10Warrior: No.
GM: okay, this is going to hurt. I'll just leave this new character sheet here, you reach for it whenever you want

[alphawhelp]

I would flat out not allow called shots or any kind of special maneuver with a penalty with predetermined magic projection.  I would functionally consider the predetermined magic projection itself to be a special maneuver.

[Cthulhu]

Have to agree with Alphawelp on this one. If you don't incur some sort of penalty and risk of missing you don't get to play 'headshot' or any other benefits you earn from beating the odds.

[Kalis]

You do have a negative. You are spending 200 extra zeon on the spell, and while you don't get to roll, you also don't get to roll. ie: if they have something like blessing and a ki technique that raises them to where a 440 is no longer an auto success. Your best trait is consistency, but if 440 isn't enough, you can't really do any better.

Any time you use the attack spell, it costs you 200 zeon, unless it has some sort of maintenance(like the War sub-path spell that lets you use magic projection for attack and defense with weapons).

[alphawhelp]

You do have a negative. You are spending 200 extra zeon on the spell, and while you don't get to roll, you also don't get to roll. ie: if they have something like blessing and a ki technique that raises them to where a 440 is no longer an auto success. Your best trait is consistency, but if 440 isn't enough, you can't really do any better.

Any time you use the attack spell, it costs you 200 zeon, unless it has some sort of maintenance(like the War sub-path spell that lets you use magic projection for attack and defense with weapons).

It doesn't matter.  If you aren't suffering from a penalty then you cannot benefit from the bonuses of voluntarily suffering that penalty.  End of story.  And please do not call a guaranteed 440 a negative, that's not a negative, that is a massive massive positive.

[EVILrokzz]

You do have a negative. You are spending 200 extra zeon on the spell, and while you don't get to roll, you also don't get to roll. ie: if they have something like blessing and a ki technique that raises them to where a 440 is no longer an auto success. Your best trait is consistency, but if 440 isn't enough, you can't really do any better.

Any time you use the attack spell, it costs you 200 zeon, unless it has some sort of maintenance(like the War sub-path spell that lets you use magic projection for attack and defense with weapons).

It doesn't matter.  If you aren't suffering from a penalty then you cannot benefit from the bonuses of voluntarily suffering that penalty.  End of story.  And please do not call a guaranteed 440 a negative, that's not a negative, that is a massive massive positive.

I second this. 440 isn't a joke, especially when you can fire off a spell like this at less than lvl 10. It's a massive boost and can pretty much vaporize anything comparable or make you nigh Invulnerable.

[Kalis]

You do have a negative. You are spending 200 extra zeon on the spell, and while you don't get to roll, you also don't get to roll. ie: if they have something like blessing and a ki technique that raises them to where a 440 is no longer an auto success. Your best trait is consistency, but if 440 isn't enough, you can't really do any better.

Any time you use the attack spell, it costs you 200 zeon, unless it has some sort of maintenance(like the War sub-path spell that lets you use magic projection for attack and defense with weapons).

It doesn't matter.  If you aren't suffering from a penalty then you cannot benefit from the bonuses of voluntarily suffering that penalty.  End of story.  And please do not call a guaranteed 440 a negative, that's not a negative, that is a massive massive positive.

I second this. 440 isn't a joke, especially when you can fire off a spell like this at less than lvl 10. It's a massive boost and can pretty much vaporize anything comparable or make you nigh Invulnerable.

You can't do it below level 10, since level 10 is needed to get the last predetermined magic projection metamagic. And of course it isn't a joke, predetermined projection metamagic breaks the game as written. Your responses are nothing but houserules, unsupported by the text of the translation we have seen.

Heck, a precision weapon and a ki technique(or just a good ki technique) can negate the penalty for called shots already. You could have a shadow that basically enters Assassin's Eye technique and headshots everybody at no penalty anyway every battle if they have the ki recovery for it, this is just a really enhanced magical version of that.

[EVILrokzz]

What? Oh... I never meant anything against it. Just stating the obvious, that is that is isn't a negative
I'd allow it, since I haven't yet seen an imbalance that couldn't be overcome.
Perfect Shield + Determined Magic Projection is a pretty good defense, but every armor has it's chinks so I'm not too worried
Still... I do consider called shots a bit overkill and low in RP value... but then again, that's just me.

Also, a 320 isn't too bad either at lower lvls (lvl 6 I believe?)
But as I said, pretty good stuff

[alphawhelp]

You do have a negative. You are spending 200 extra zeon on the spell, and while you don't get to roll, you also don't get to roll. ie: if they have something like blessing and a ki technique that raises them to where a 440 is no longer an auto success. Your best trait is consistency, but if 440 isn't enough, you can't really do any better.

Any time you use the attack spell, it costs you 200 zeon, unless it has some sort of maintenance(like the War sub-path spell that lets you use magic projection for attack and defense with weapons).

It doesn't matter.  If you aren't suffering from a penalty then you cannot benefit from the bonuses of voluntarily suffering that penalty.  End of story.  And please do not call a guaranteed 440 a negative, that's not a negative, that is a massive massive positive.

I second this. 440 isn't a joke, especially when you can fire off a spell like this at less than lvl 10. It's a massive boost and can pretty much vaporize anything comparable or make you nigh Invulnerable.

You can't do it below level 10, since level 10 is needed to get the last predetermined magic projection metamagic. And of course it isn't a joke, predetermined projection metamagic breaks the game as written. Your responses are nothing but houserules, unsupported by the text of the translation we have seen.

Heck, a precision weapon and a ki technique(or just a good ki technique) can negate the penalty for called shots already. You could have a shadow that basically enters Assassin's Eye technique and headshots everybody at no penalty anyway every battle if they have the ki recovery for it, this is just a really enhanced magical version of that.

There is a massive difference between a Ki technique that negates a predetermined amount of penalties and an ability which negates all penalties whatsoever, and also guarantees you a result equivalent to a really good open roll.  If you can't see the difference between those two abilities I don't know what to tell you.

A level 10 character would have a projection of around 260, so for 200 zeon, he can guarantee rolling 180 on the dice, every time, and also ignores all penalties.

And lots of rules don't actually work by the letter of the rule.  By the letter of the rule, completely supported by the translation as we know them, Amplify Sustained Power should stack with Free PP, but it doesn't, and that might not be in print, but that's the real rule.

If you get too hung up over the letter of the rule and not the spirit of the rule, then you end up with stupid broken crap.  Rule of thumb which has never failed me, if something sounds stupid broken in this game--then it probably doesn't actually work that way.

[Kalis]

quote tree snipped for ease of reading

There is a massive difference between a Ki technique that negates a predetermined amount of penalties and an ability which negates all penalties whatsoever, and also guarantees you a result equivalent to a really good open roll.  If you can't see the difference between those two abilities I don't know what to tell you.

A level 10 character would have a projection of around 260, so for 200 zeon, he can guarantee rolling 180 on the dice, every time, and also ignores all penalties.

And lots of rules don't actually work by the letter of the rule.  By the letter of the rule, completely supported by the translation as we know them, Amplify Sustained Power should stack with Free PP, but it doesn't, and that might not be in print, but that's the real rule.

If you get too hung up over the letter of the rule and not the spirit of the rule, then you end up with stupid broken crap.  Rule of thumb which has never failed me, if something sounds stupid broken in this game--then it probably doesn't actually work that way.

Or it does work that way, as Predetermined Magic(why do I keep typing it majic on the first pass and having to correct myself?) projection does, and is broken.

The Predetermined Attack technique can do the same thing(though 26/32 ki being accumulated is a bit trickier than an extra 200 zeon that is auto deducted and does not have to be accumulated).

[alphawhelp]

It doesn't matter, it's still not in the spirit of the rule to let a level 1 mage take out someone's eyeballs with a guaranteed 140 any more than a level 10 guy with a guaranteed 440.

I am now questioning whether called shots or other kinds of special maneuvers are even possible with normal projection, I certainly don't see jack squat in the "Supernatural Abilities in Combat" section mentioning this is possible.

[Kalis]

It doesn't matter, it's still not in the spirit of the rule to let a level 1 mage take out someone's eyeballs with a guaranteed 140 any more than a level 10 guy with a guaranteed 440.

I am now questioning whether called shots or other kinds of special maneuvers are even possible with normal projection, I certainly don't see jack squat in the "Supernatural Abilities in Combat" section mentioning this is possible.

Given that one of the metamagic abilities is that it adds the precision tag to attack spells(including area attacks if you have the second level, so headshotting with explosions is okay)

In the supernatural section under magic in combat, it says that "Only in the case of attack spells does the combatant suffer penalties for aiming at different parts of the bodies."

[Lia Valenth]

If you get too hung up over the letter of the rule and not the spirit of the rule, then you end up with stupid broken crap.

Thank you alphawhelp, this is something that is rather important and ignored online, in actual games you seldom see the stuff people claim is legal. It may be legal by RAW, but as that no GM allows it, for all intents and purposes that is not how it works.

But, this is pointless and is officially going as another thing that I would like an official clarification from someone higher up (Anima Studios, the creator, or something). The only other one I have that bugs me this much is how, exactly, Chimera works (which has bugged me as long as I have played).

[Korwin]

If you get too hung up over the letter of the rule and not the spirit of the rule, then you end up with stupid broken crap.

Thank you alphawhelp, this is something that is rather important and ignored online, in actual games you seldom see the stuff people claim is legal. It may be legal by RAW, but as that no GM allows it, for all intents and purposes that is not how it works.

The problem is, its very hard to talk/argue about the spirit of the rules. Because they are not printed in the books.
So when someone says it doesn't work that way, but he actually means: he would'nt allow it, it gets confusing really fast.
The one talks about what he allows in his game, the other talks about whats printed in the book.

Shure that way we get a little more traffic in this forum, but only because everyone talks about something other than the next one. Not very constructive...

And that happens in almost every thread. Maybe thats my confirmation bias?