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[wizuriel]

So one of my players was looking to make a character based on Gun Fu. I was thinking of making an advantage for 1CP you can use a a weapon associated with a MA at the MA's full advantage. Than for each additional CP you can add 1 weapon and use it fully for any MA's your trained it (can't take exclusive weapon with this advantage). Think it might be too strong or too expensive?

[alphawhelp]

Guns are not a weapon for any MA in the game, so you'd have to invent a new MA on top of the advantage.  Furthermore, the fact that you even know that MAs have associated weapons means you have access to Dominus Exxet, in which case, the obvious and clear answer here is not to invent a new advantage, but just point your player in the direction of Gunhell in the prefigured Ki techniques towards the back of Dominus Exxet.

If he wants to also be able to punch and kick people in the face while shooting them, I suggest pointing him towards Tae Kwon Do, which does exactly that.

Start his Attack trained in guns, buy the Martial Arts at full price, it comes out to be a cheaper DP investment that way.

[wizuriel]

except the player in question doesn't want to use supernatural powers and stick with just MA and more natural abilities. Rules are written mixing weapons and MA doesn't really work (at least not effectively which is kind of surprising consider gunfu is a trope I figured would really fit this setting). It's why was thinking of a 1-2+ CP advantage. Just kind of torn because I think 1cp is too cheap and 2 to use 1 weapon with trained MA's might be too expensive. 

To make Preston from the video my guess would be a gun pistol, Soo Bahk and Tae Kwan Do.

[Sharpandpointies]

Gun Fu is an anime-style trope, but Anima really isn't a gun-fighter's paradise.  You'd need Lost Logia weapons to be any good, or it would be 'shoot, toss pistol, shoot, toss pistol, shoot, toss pistol, shoot, toss pistol...draw sword.'

And you seem to have answered your own question.  Proficiency in firearms, some kind of Lost Logia pistol, TKD, Soo Bahk, and Hanja.  ^_^  And the GM's grace to be allowed to gain the modifiers for the martial arts while using a pistol.

Given the kind of benefits using a semi-automatic pistol could give, I would be tempted to say '2 CP', as it's an experiment.

[alphawhelp]

except the player in question doesn't want to use supernatural powers and stick with just MA and more natural abilities. Rules are written mixing weapons and MA doesn't really work (at least not effectively which is kind of surprising consider gunfu is a trope I figured would really fit this setting). It's why was thinking of a 1-2+ CP advantage. Just kind of torn because I think 1cp is too cheap and 2 to use 1 weapon with trained MA's might be too expensive. 

To make Preston from the video my guess would be a gun pistol, Soo Bahk and Tae Kwan Do.

You can't do Gunfu from the video with the kinds of guns available in Anima, at any rate.  If you want to go all non supernatural, just take training in guns, and Tae Kwon Do, and play an Acrobatic Warrior, it's as close as you're going to get.

Anyway, mixing weapons and MA is not supposed to be effective, Martial Arts is about punching and kicking people in the face, it's not about using weapons.  If you want to use weapons to great effect, take style modules instead.

[wizuriel]

Sword Pistols have 6-12 shots per barrel and are 1 handed so don't see why you couldn't duel wield them. Heck they only have a 2 reload time and if you can use them that should be knocked down to 1 anyways (unless you really rush to be able to use them), but that is more for a long term idea.

Edit: This isn't about effectiveness, it is about style. Using an impossible weapon a character I'm sure would be much better off using ki abilities than trying to get a particular style with MA.

[alphawhelp]

Sword Pistols have 6-12 shots per barrel and are 1 handed so don't see why you couldn't duel wield them. Heck they only have a 2 reload time and if you can use them that should be knocked down to 1 anyways (unless you really rush to be able to use them), but that is more for a long term idea.

Edit: This isn't about effectiveness, it is about style. Using an impossible weapon a character I'm sure would be much better off using ki abilities than trying to get a particular style with MA.

Only Wissenschaft has the 6-12 shot models.  Everyone else is using 1 shot, unless they got really lucky and found some sword pistols laying around in a Solomon ruin, and then it's unlikely they would have the skills to manufacture the ammo for it anyway.

and if it's really about Style, I believe Anima has got you covered already, what with a dedicated skill for it.

Just saying you're potentially breaking the game by letting weapons work with MA, and breaking it even more by allowing the use of any weapon whatsoever.  now I have guns that shoot Energy-AT damaging bullets at level 1, so not only do my enemies have no defense without inhumanity, they also probably have no armor.  or now I make 3 attacks suffering only a -10 penalty to each one with my +10 two-handed sword.

The reason why Tae Kwon Do works with weapons is because the extra attack it gives you is specifically a kick, it doesn't give you an extra attack with a weapon.  Martial Arts cannot be used with weapons and for good reason, both game balance wise, and common sense reasons.

I also fail to see how the concept cannot be played by just taking guns and Tae Kwon Do, and a high style skill, without needing to create any additional rules.

one would guess the fact that you feel this concept requires additional rules suggests it isn't really all about style.

[Sharpandpointies]

alphawhelp's point about 'where does it lead?' is a good one.  It's one thing to take guns and a martial art or two that allow for extra bonuses when dodging, dodging without penalties for flanking, etc.

It's another when it comes to adding in the extra attacks at lowered penalties and other special abilities of martial arts.

Change of thought, thanks to that: I'd go with his suggestion.  TKD and Style.

[wizuriel]

alphawhelp's point about 'where does it lead?' is a good one.  It's one thing to take guns and a martial art or two that allow for extra bonuses when dodging, dodging without penalties for flanking, etc.

It's another when it comes to adding in the extra attacks at lowered penalties and other special abilities of martial arts.

Change of thought, thanks to that: I'd go with his suggestion.  TKD and Style.

That is one of my fears. Purly based on MA though your looking at
Aikido: bonus trapping/take down so little bonus based on your weapon
Kung Fu: variable bonus, I can see the damage one being strong but nothing ridiculous for the cost to learn this
Pankration: makes it harder to escape if you trap someone (weapon won't really make this better)
Shotokan: nothing added
Boxing: nothing added
Capoeira: Makes area attacks easier (a lot of weapons already give this bonus as do styles)
malla-tuddha: disarm bonus (also some styles already do this)
Sambo: makes precise more deadly (I think there ways to do this with style/right weapon but not sure off hand)
Kempo: extra attack (which you can just buy for same cost) and lowers penalty for extra attacks (this one is nice and cause for some concern depending on the weapon)
Tae Kwan Do: already allows weapons
Lama: Bonus to defense actions. Without Ki, magic I think this is pretty unique but I don't think game breaking
Grappling: Weapons can already give these effects
Tai Chi: nothing
Kardad: extra attempt at characteristic test. Unique but I don't see it being bad
Xing Quan: situational bonus to attack, not bad but expensive (Can just buy straight attack bonus for -5 difference to attack roll, but without it being situational)
Kuan: Lets you use a weapon as a shield pretty much. You can already buy a module that lets you do this with 2 handed weapons for much cheaper
Soo Bahk: Tons of defense bonuses (and this is the style that started the entire investigation into this idea since I can't find another way to pull it off)

Advanced MA's
Emp: bonus to disarm and can make the attempt whenever you get the right to counter attack. This is pretty nice
Selene: Very strong
Suyanta: Will make ki characters upset. I believe can do this far cheaper/easier though with nemesis or other techniques
Velez: Very strong. Though there are fair cheaper ways to accomplish this using nemesis/ki
Asakusen: Pretty nice variable bonus. Nothing that seems game breaking though
Lama Tsu: Super nice defense bonus. This can make a martial character very strong
Seraphite: almost guarantees an action
Melkaiah: nice bonus to attacks, maneuvers when on the offensive. A bit situational but a real bonus
Dumah: Break all the things. This is super nice against the right opponent
Mushin: Weapon doesn't change this
Hakyoukuken: Ignores armour. This also does mean things to the right opponent
Shepion: Weapon does nothing to this
Enuth: This is just mean (though it is pretty brutual regardless of using a weapon or not)
Hanja: About as strong as Lama Tsu
Godhand: There already weapon styles that let you do this
Rex Frame: Nothing
Exelion: nothing

So ones that I see abusable with weapons:
Hakyoukuken (high damage weapon and only supernatural ways to stop it won't be nice)
Kempo (makes extra attacks too cheap)
Enuth (would make the DC to save insanely high [Though it is already insanely high if you just try to do this normally])


So after doing all that I don't think what I need to do is make an advantage to let a character use MA with weapons and get the advantage as much as a new style/module that is kind of like Soo Bahk. Maybe also look into a few of the ones that give nice situational bonuses to maneuvers (I do like the ones that give bonus to x maneuver when counter attacking).

[Lizbeth]

I have to point that by default Unarmed attacks are Speed +20 Base Damage 10. And Firearms are Speed +0 Base Damage 60 (six times bigger), -80 Block -30 Dodge until mastery (then block becomes -20 and dodge is -0) or shield (makes block only -30).

That is why Martial Arts benefit unarmed combat greatly — because unarmed combat is useless otherwise.

I'd say if I ever allow MA with weapons — there will be no halving cost for Tao at least. Possibly no MK boost also.

[EVILrokzz]

I see it as too strong.

MA can be used with weapons but with no advantages (other than the added attack/block/dodge) for a reason.

As was said by alphawhelp and supported by Sharpandpointies - TKD and Style, and there he goes

I once created a Susanoo for 3 CP for a player (he argued that there was NO WAY it was a technique) and had to kill him off since it was too strong. So, I recommend staying within the rules rather than create a possible broken one.

[Sharpandpointies]

Having looked over the advantages, I still agree with Lizbeth, EVILrokzz, and alphawhelp.  It's overpowered, in my opinion.  The advantages given for Martial Artists are to overcome the rather glaring weakness of unarmed attacks.  Dropping them on weaponusers seems too much of an advantage for my taste (and again, Dominus Exxet pretty much covers this already without the unbalancing act). 

All of that especially since it can simply be simulated by 'High Dodge, Style, Tae Kwon Do'.  :)

[Smilingknight]

I think you are way over thinking it. Just make 3 different new weapon styles and don't tie them to actual MAs.

Dual shot -  lets you use your Aim on two different targets at once, and make two shots (from duel pistols) as one attack roll at -30

Gun Tata - All ranged attacks against you are considered to be partially blinded. You must be aware of the opponent for you to adjust your stance to accommodate them. Maybe an acrobatics or style check that is one difficulty level per opponent.

Gun Fu - You get to use your counterattack bonus at range. Also as long as you have the ability to attack, you can use an attack roll (with all projectile modifiers) for a melee defense. If it is a successful defense, you must counter-attack that opponent using the same attack roll but without the counterattack bonus.


Make them all cost 30 DP, so he can really only afford one a level.

[alphawhelp]

Dual shot -  lets you use your Aim on two different targets at once, and make two shots (from duel pistols) as one attack roll at -30

There is already a module which does something similar in the GM Toolkit:

multiple target module
This grants the ability to shoot several targets at once with
complete precision.
Effect: The character does not suffer a penalty of –10 for
switching targets when carrying out shots or throws.
Cost: 40 DP

It cost 40 DP.  The module you are suggesting (for 30) is really overpowered.

The other two modules are also extremely overpowered. (30 DP to inflict a persistent -30 penalty to all incoming attacks?  don't get me started on the other one)

[Smilingknight]

Have you seen equilibrium? That's exactly what the gun fu is. Change the bonuses or preqs or costs as much as you feel like, that's the spirit of the characters. Frankly, I think pairing these styles with plain flint lock pistols doesn't pay off that great