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[Lia Valenth]

1. Powergaming Tao builds do exactly as I said especially if they start ath the stated level. Non-powergaming.. I assume they can stay Tao.
2. Goku haven't studied any MA, I just recently read the manga. And about others — it's quite possible that they stayed tao which'd explain why they never had flashy effects compared to Goku, Vegetta or Piccolo. (also it can be explained with race or lower level)

1) As I said, I see Technitian being one of two logical advancements of Taos. Either you get the awesome Martial Arts that require level 13+ or you become more of a Technitian. Switching classes as your character changes is less of a way to become stronger, and more of a way to define a character. If you are doing it for mechanical benefit alone then of course your going to become stronger, but only in what you want to do. A pure Tao will be better at MA than a Tao/Technician and with what some of the high level MA do your giving up a LOT. If you don't believe people ever change then I suppose it wouldn't make sense to change classes, but that is why there is the two level wait - you don't change overnight. You choose to change and work on it.

Mechanics vs Story is often a problem, changing your class should be because it is best for the story, the mechanics just support it. But that is a problem between people playing it just as a game and people telling a story.

2) I have to disagree on Goku. It is true he never learned Martial Arts, but it wasn't until fairly late in Dragon Ball that he used any Ki. He was really an untrained fighter, mechanically he would be a Freelancer or maybe Fighter that become a Technician that learned a few MA's as well. It took him till half-way through Dragon Ball to learn any Ki abilities, and by that point he was like level 4 or 5 (able to beat the best people in the world). Further DBZ is not the only example, nor the best. It is merely a well known one.

[Lizbeth]

1) As I said, I see Technitian being one of two logical advancements of Taos. Either you get the awesome Martial Arts that require level 13+ or you become more of a Technitian. Switching classes as your character changes is less of a way to become stronger, and more of a way to define a character. If you are doing it for mechanical benefit alone then of course your going to become stronger, but only in what you want to do. A pure Tao will be better at MA than a Tao/Technician and with what some of the high level MA do your giving up a LOT. If you don't believe people ever change then I suppose it wouldn't make sense to change classes, but that is why there is the two level wait - you don't change overnight. You choose to change and work on it.

Mechanics vs Story is often a problem, changing your class should be because it is best for the story, the mechanics just support it. But that is a problem between people playing it just as a game and people telling a story.

2) I have to disagree on Goku. It is true he never learned Martial Arts, but it wasn't until fairly late in Dragon Ball that he used any Ki. He was really an untrained fighter, mechanically he would be a Freelancer or maybe Fighter that become a Technician that learned a few MA's as well. It took him till half-way through Dragon Ball to learn any Ki abilities, and by that point he was like level 4 or 5 (able to beat the best people in the world). Further DBZ is not the only example, nor the best. It is merely a well known one.

1. But benefits-wise it's an actual change over night — in terms of how DP spent. Unless the player started to spend DP on Dominion stuff while being Tao.
2. I agree that he had no techniques for quite long. However he is not fighter by class for me. It is quite possible that he spent his MK to obtain abilities like damage barrier (he was quite impervious to bullets) and others.
Also he just could have stored them for better good — according to Dominus Exxet huge MK pool would explain his speed of learning.
But that's just my opinion.

[FearlessElbow]

1. But benefits-wise it's an actual change over night — in terms of how DP spent. Unless the player started to spend DP on Dominion stuff while being Tao.

No, it's not.  Because the learning doesn't start when you go up a level and make the change; it starts when you declare the change two levels in advance.  You're declaring an intention to move in a different direction.  It just takes that long for you to see the benefit of that learning.

At least that's how I see it, RP-wise.

[Lizbeth]

I see it DP-wise. In this term it is overnight change.

[Dynaes]

I see it DP-wise. In this term it is overnight change.

By this logic, any character that spends DP on anything new (secondary skills, combat maneuvers, etc) is an overnight change.

[Lia Valenth]

I see it DP-wise. In this term it is overnight change.

That's a problem with mechanics, not with changing classes. I give DP in 10-DP instalments 10 times per "level up". This solves the giant boost problem of 100DP differences because someone is 23XP higher. Mechanics reflect story, from your statement your problem seems to be with how levelling works, not how changing classes does.

[Lizbeth]

Problem is not in the huge mass of DP falling in one moment. Problem is that players tend to act like this:
Lv 1 to lv N-1, Tao. 50% DP spent on attack/defence, 10% on MA, 0 on Dominion pool or accumulation.
Lv N, Tao. 50 DP spent on attack/defence, 10 on MA, 0 on Dominion pool or accumulation. Declared intention to change class.
Lv N+1, still Tao. 50 DP spent on attack/defence, 10 on MA, 0 on Dominion pool or accumulation.
Lv N+2, finally tech. 50 DP spent on attack/defence, 0 on MA, 10 on Dominion pool or accumulation.

As you can see it's quite a radical change in DP investment (considering that attack/defence is almost mandatory), while more fluff-wise way would be like:

Lv N, Tao. 50 DP spent on attack/defence, 0 on MA, 10 on Dominion pool or accumulation. Declared intention to change class.
Lv N+1, still Tao. 50 DP spent on attack/defence, 0 on MA, 10 on Dominion pool or accumulation.

I think that numbers define what is right (for example fighter with attack/block 40 is lame despite his player portraying him like a unbeatble), and intention to change the cass must have some action that proves it.

[vytzka]

I think that numbers define what is right (for example fighter with attack/block 40 is lame despite his player portraying him like a unbeatble), and intention to change the cass must have some action that proves it.

Well, I broadly agree with the sentiment FWIW.

But you're the GM. If you're not convinced the character is being developed in line with the change, you don't have to allow it. Discuss it with the player and agree on a reasonable course of action, or else. If they complain, tell them it's a give and take, and an exchange for not enforcing three years training times for martial arts*.

I mean, hey. Class change costs 40 DP. Why not waive that and make them invest, say, 80 DP in appropriate things (in this case, Dominion pool or accumulation). It's hardly optimal but it's not literally throwing the points away either - and it is flavorful.


*Only works if you're not actually enforcing three years training times for difficult martial arts; change as situation permits.

[Sharpandpointies]

Hm.  Lots of different opinions running around here on how to do things, and all interesting to read.  :)

The one I'm playing has been doing the Dominion Tech thing since Tao level 1, with the vast bulk of her MK being dropped into that rather than a bucketload of Ki abilities.  A focus on Dominion Techs has been there from the start.