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[Rii Nagaja]

While studying the extended KI system of dominus exxet, I stumbled over some design problems or pressing questions that I want to list out. It is just a catalogue - I don't really claim to know the answer to these problems, though I'll sometimes think of some possible fixes that came to my mind.
And these are really just the design or explanation flaws, because there were real mistakes of course (open the example technique compendium on any(!) page and you will instantly find one ), but I don't mind them. Maybe they even got corrected already by some errata.
..And: I am highly satisfied with Dominus Exxet, so never get me wrong. I love what came out of it, especially the ars magnus extras that I didn't expect, because the technique system was my original interest magnet.

The problems:

• "Sagittarius Magister"'s area strike is so vast, that it may easily exceed the original possible range of 30 feet(+strength modifiers).

This is a minor problem since the area attack is a particular attack form, that consumes the whole round and has therefore some speciality status. But you may find your character in a situation, where he can't reach a guy on a tower or something with a simple throw...
so he decides to make an area strike instead and magically blasts him off because Ki, thats why!

• The "Elemental requirements" technique disadvantage gives less points if you need elemtents of higher intensity, while they are harder to get.

May be a missunderstanding, since they made this 'error?' in both books. But I cannot think of a suitable explanation. I copied it this way into the calculator nonetheless.

• "Increased Bonus"-KI effect - can you increase intelligence and perception too?

The primary characteristic of this effect is determined by the stat you aid with it, but there are only six KI relevant attributes, leaving perception and intelligence out. On the other hand there is no clue why anything should be left out, since Willpower and Power can get a boost too, so it is not entirely physical in nature.

• Why are there so much entrys for 3rd level effect strength sustenance, when you actually cannot take them everrrrrrr

• The "Total accumulation" advantage is so powerful, that anybody not choosing it would be outmatched compared to the smart CP investor guy tech-nin-han

Being able to accumulate at full strength while fighting is a such a serious behalf, that it basically turns out to be standard equipment. Lets face it, a technician is a fighter, he fights. Most rarely he will stand back to accumulate, but mostly you will fight first front, only accumulating at half capability.
Oh, and there is this equal experienced Total Accumulation guy, facing him... . Guess who is writing "Mwahahaw" in his diary this evening.

(I don't know how to solve that, but I am highly interested in suggestions. Just increasing the costs further wouldn't do it, I am sure. Maybe the whole calculation with halving accumulation isn't quite right to begin with, and should just produce some penalty of some sort .. don't know.)

• You still can't make a cone with KI area attacks.

I was eagerly awaiting more complex area attacks to become possible, so I don't have to ruling-hotfix them anymore (inofficial adjustments always stay a bit unacceptable). The only thing was the "line of destruction", that at least makes hard beams possible, but famous forms like cones, a wide beam (instead of explosions at the end), lines .. still uncharted.

• KI-Disadvantage "Excessive Energy Use"

Just a curiosity remark, that you can actually make your technique 6 KI points more expensive with the increased cost rules to get 15 MK for it ..or double its cost, up to 50 additional points or something, definitly more, ..for the same outcome.
But I like it, it was absolutely necessesary and I allready helped myself out with this before dominus exxet.

• KI Drain like in Supernatural States or the "Suyanta" martial art seem incredibly strong against any KI user.

The standard KI-Drain effect reduces the reserves as fast as a normal lifepoint loss effect, only that you don't have that much here, even as technician. A level 7 character (with 70 PhR) would fail an more mid-strong 140 PhR check on 25 points on avarage, so the technique user destroys 25 KI and gains the same amount back.
With Suyanta, the attack damage gets replaced(/or accompanied on arcane degree) with KI damage, so there isn't a check to counter. A capable martial artist can deliver some really bad, probably the best damage dealing considering all the multi attack possibilities.
Maybe technicians don't get exactly bankrupt, but the "manaburn" is quite slicing, so in a fight with those antitechnicians, you may only be able to count on less than half your original pool, I think.




And here is another one off the list, since it is a more generell but also more questionable complaint. I am bothered by the fixed values that come with supernatural states checks, or similar in "interruption", "predetermined attack/defense" or even psychic powers, spells and monster abilities. These tend to loose on value with every level you increase (or better: your enemys increase), thus standing a bit back against the variable effects such as attack bonus, because those increase with you at any level - they just add on top of what you have.
Nobody would choose a simple 100 PhR supernatural state effect, because you can be sure, that the spend MK virtually go to waste in a few levels.
I have a suggestion for that: The PhR or whatever could be linked to presence in some way, like it is on so many other occasions. This way it increases with level, but the effect table could still give it an extra edge in form of a bonus. For example you could have "Presence+0" as a very weak effect and maybe start with "presence+70/80" with the level 2-ish effects. (same with the predetermined attack effect - it could still be predetermined so that you don't have to roll a dice, but increase with you on leveling up).
I think for the resistence checks you would actually need a much more tighter effect strength list (not steps of 20, but maybe of 10), so that stronger effects (of PhR 120+) may be still open to weaker characters, but on the other hand, lategame characters don't get too strong through their insane level 2 or 3 powers (200 PhR shouldn't be exceeded too much - and will only slowly progress further after level 10 or so). Maybe only 40 possible points get reserved for level 2 and 3 at all together.

- My vague suggestions for a change. I think nearly everyone was bothered by this at some point allready (maybe there allready exists a thread addressing that problem?).



Thats it. I would like to see your comments on some points.
And feel free to add more difficulties if you found any.


..Here is a '/list' sign, that I cannot get to disappear!:[/list]
( if I delete it, it just magically reappears at the end of the text. ..what does it want? does it come with peaceful intent? )

[VoidKnight]

I'm still reading through your post but as for this:

• The "Elemental requirements" technique disadvantage gives less points if you need elemtents of higher intensity, while they are harder to get.

May be a missunderstanding, since they made this 'error?' in both books. But I cannot think of a suitable explanation. I copied it this way into the calculator nonetheless.

I reverse engineered a few of the techniques in the back and it looks like they just switched the negatives accidentally. Lower intensity should give less points than higher intensity.

•     You still can't make a cone with KI area attacks.

I was eagerly awaiting more complex area attacks to become possible, so I don't have to ruling-hotfix them anymore (inofficial adjustments always stay a bit unacceptable). The only thing was the "line of destruction", that at least makes hard beams possible, but famous forms like cones, a wide beam (instead of explosions at the end), lines .. still uncharted.

One thing I found that works for a cone would be the Within Line of Sight (Multiple) for Supernatural Effects or whatever. But I do agree, it could use something.

I have to go now, will be back on later to read the rest.

[alphawhelp]

• "Sagittarius Magister"'s area strike is so vast, that it may easily exceed the original possible range of 30 feet(+strength modifiers).

This is a minor problem since the area attack is a particular attack form, that consumes the whole round and has therefore some speciality status. But you may find your character in a situation, where he can't reach a guy on a tower or something with a simple throw...
so he decides to make an area strike instead and magically blasts him off because Ki, thats why!

I am not sure why you think this is a problem.  remember, area attack is full action, if enemy was in range normally, he might be attacked 2 or 3 times instead.  use area attack to hit something out of your range makes attack as whole weaker.

• The "Elemental requirements" technique disadvantage gives less points if you need elemtents of higher intensity, while they are harder to get.

May be a missunderstanding, since they made this 'error?' in both books. But I cannot think of a suitable explanation. I copied it this way into the calculator nonetheless.

As was said earlier, you should reverse negatives.

• "Increased Bonus"-KI effect - can you increase intelligence and perception too?

The primary characteristic of this effect is determined by the stat you aid with it, but there are only six KI relevant attributes, leaving perception and intelligence out. On the other hand there is no clue why anything should be left out, since Willpower and Power can get a boost too, so it is not entirely physical in nature.

no because perception and intelligence are not Ki generating characteristics, besides there are lots of special perceptive ki techniques, and using ki to make yourself smarter makes no sense.

• Why are there so much entrys for 3rd level effect strength sustenance, when you actually cannot take them everrrrrrr

I have asked this question before, and the answer is "just in case the game master wants to allow level 4 techniques"

• The "Total accumulation" advantage is so powerful, that anybody not choosing it would be outmatched compared to the smart CP investor guy tech-nin-han

Being able to accumulate at full strength while fighting is a such a serious behalf, that it basically turns out to be standard equipment. Lets face it, a technician is a fighter, he fights. Most rarely he will stand back to accumulate, but mostly you will fight first front, only accumulating at half capability.
Oh, and there is this equal experienced Total Accumulation guy, facing him... . Guess who is writing "Mwahahaw" in his diary this evening.

(I don't know how to solve that, but I am highly interested in suggestions. Just increasing the costs further wouldn't do it, I am sure. Maybe the whole calculation with halving accumulation isn't quite right to begin with, and should just produce some penalty of some sort .. don't know.)

Total Accumulation is also 2 point advantage.  To give examples of other 2 point advantage is The Gift, Free Access to any Psychic Discipline, Amplify Sustained Power, etc.  It is about right for a 2 point advantage.  It is not a problem that needs to be solved.

• You still can't make a cone with KI area attacks.

I was eagerly awaiting more complex area attacks to become possible, so I don't have to ruling-hotfix them anymore (inofficial adjustments always stay a bit unacceptable). The only thing was the "line of destruction", that at least makes hard beams possible, but famous forms like cones, a wide beam (instead of explosions at the end), lines .. still uncharted.

you can just use Area Attack, say that Cone has equal area to Circle (roughly speaking, if Cone was 45 degree angle, Cone will reach about twice as far as the circle, but only in front 45 degree cone)

• KI-Disadvantage "Excessive Energy Use"

Just a curiosity remark, that you can actually make your technique 6 KI points more expensive with the increased cost rules to get 15 MK for it ..or double its cost, up to 50 additional points or something, definitly more, ..for the same outcome.
But I like it, it was absolutely necessesary and I allready helped myself out with this before dominus exxet.

If you have technique that costs 10 Ki and you increase cost by 6, you must accumulate 16 Ki to use it.  If you have technique that costs 10 Ki with excessive energy use, you only need accumulate 10 Ki to use it, you just lose 10 more Ki after using technique.  Big difference.

• KI Drain like in Supernatural States or the "Suyanta" martial art seem incredibly strong against any KI user.

The standard KI-Drain effect reduces the reserves as fast as a normal lifepoint loss effect, only that you don't have that much here, even as technician. A level 7 character (with 70 PhR) would fail an more mid-strong 140 PhR check on 25 points on avarage, so the technique user destroys 25 KI and gains the same amount back.
With Suyanta, the attack damage gets replaced(/or accompanied on arcane degree) with KI damage, so there isn't a check to counter. A capable martial artist can deliver some really bad, probably the best damage dealing considering all the multi attack possibilities.
Maybe technicians don't get exactly bankrupt, but the "manaburn" is quite slicing, so in a fight with those antitechnicians, you may only be able to count on less than half your original pool, I think.

Many things out there much worse to technicians like Nemesis or Destruction Magic "Destroy Ki"  Suyanta also kind of hard to get.  Is easy to start game with nemesis guy that uses -3 to all Ki accumulations--by time tao has Suyanta, Nemesis technician has -5 to all accumulations.  Most powerful technician in the game with stats, Lord of the Infinite highest accumulation is 6 (but nemesis not affect him unless you have higher gnosis than him so w/e)

And here is another one off the list, since it is a more generell but also more questionable complaint. I am bothered by the fixed values that come with supernatural states checks, or similar in "interruption", "predetermined attack/defense" or even psychic powers, spells and monster abilities. These tend to loose on value with every level you increase (or better: your enemys increase), thus standing a bit back against the variable effects such as attack bonus, because those increase with you at any level - they just add on top of what you have.
Nobody would choose a simple 100 PhR supernatural state effect, because you can be sure, that the spend MK virtually go to waste in a few levels.
I have a suggestion for that: The PhR or whatever could be linked to presence in some way, like it is on so many other occasions. This way it increases with level, but the effect table could still give it an extra edge in form of a bonus. For example you could have "Presence+0" as a very weak effect and maybe start with "presence+70/80" with the level 2-ish effects. (same with the predetermined attack effect - it could still be predetermined so that you don't have to roll a dice, but increase with you on leveling up).
I think for the resistence checks you would actually need a much more tighter effect strength list (not steps of 20, but maybe of 10), so that stronger effects (of PhR 120+) may be still open to weaker characters, but on the other hand, lategame characters don't get too strong through their insane level 2 or 3 powers (200 PhR shouldn't be exceeded too much - and will only slowly progress further after level 10 or so). Maybe only 40 possible points get reserved for level 2 and 3 at all together.

Resistance is very weak, anyway.  My entire level 7 part has over 150 resist everything and can make it go over 250.  Smart technician does not use resistance based attacks.

[Rii Nagaja]

I reverse engineered a few of the techniques in the back and it looks like they just switched the negatives accidentally. Lower intensity should give less points than higher intensity.

Good to know. That solves this finally.

• "Sagittarius Magister"'s area strike is so vast, that it may easily exceed the original possible range of 30 feet(+strength modifiers).

This is a minor problem since the area attack is a particular attack form, that consumes the whole round and has therefore some speciality status. But you may find your character in a situation, where he can't reach a guy on a tower or something with a simple throw...
so he decides to make an area strike instead and magically blasts him off because Ki, thats why!

I am not sure why you think this is a problem.  remember, area attack is full action, if enemy was in range normally, he might be attacked 2 or 3 times instead.  use area attack to hit something out of your range makes attack as whole weaker.

Yes, as I said. But still, don't you find it kind of disturbing, that KI allows you to throw a dagger about 2 or 3 times of your original range ..but only if you throw like 20 additional daggers in every other direction at the same time, wreak havoc in your surroundings for no purpose? Because that is literally your only option when you can't reach a target by feet, maybe if it stands on the other side of a canyon.
If it were for a special form of KI attack, that would be a different thing, because something like an energy blast is just a total different kind of attack, so that could explain the farther range. But here you are still just throwing the same objects - aided through KI. Why can't you throw just one object with the same power?

In the unlikely case that I should encounter that situation, I think I will just let the guy throw one object instead, but he will still need the full turn to use this attack.
Thinking about it, maybe that was even how the attack form was meant. Maybe it is not like a total throwing scatter that hits everything in your range, leaving also some requisites perforated and alikes, but maybe it was meant as a more precise 'exactly one projectile per enemy you want to hit' attack. That would eliminate any curiosity about this, but nowhere in the entry do I see a hint that you could choose your targets, which would imply this form of attack.

• "Increased Bonus"-KI effect - can you increase intelligence and perception too?

The primary characteristic of this effect is determined by the stat you aid with it, but there are only six KI relevant attributes, leaving perception and intelligence out. On the other hand there is no clue why anything should be left out, since Willpower and Power can get a boost too, so it is not entirely physical in nature.

no because perception and intelligence are not Ki generating characteristics, besides there are lots of special perceptive ki techniques, and using ki to make yourself smarter makes no sense.

I don't see the logic behind that. The technique is about giving boni to compared characteristic checks. That implies every compared characteristic check is possible at first, because there is no written restriction.
Furthermore it is especially mentioned that those boni don't make you more agile or in reality stronger, so you also wouldn't use it to make yourself smarter. However it may look or be explainable, it just gives you 'unfair' advantage somehow.

You cannot use perception and intelligence, totally valid attributes for contested checks, because there is no KI-attribute for it and that automatically implies it without any need of description? They don't especially mention them, just play it down, because it is so obvious?
I think chances are good, that they just forgot about it, because no matter which is true, there would be at least half of a sentence of explanation otherwise.

• Why are there so much entrys for 3rd level effect strength sustenance, when you actually cannot take them everrrrrrr

I have asked this question before, and the answer is "just in case the game master wants to allow level 4 techniques"

Interesting, what would that be, just a technique without MK limitation?
Would be hard to accomplish, since I never broke the limit so far, though I tried. (but I still always hold back a bit. extraordinary technique needs extraordinary description for me.)

• The "Total accumulation" advantage is so powerful, that anybody not choosing it would be outmatched compared to the smart CP investor guy tech-nin-han

Being able to accumulate at full strength while fighting is a such a serious behalf, that it basically turns out to be standard equipment. Lets face it, a technician is a fighter, he fights. Most rarely he will stand back to accumulate, but mostly you will fight first front, only accumulating at half capability.
Oh, and there is this equal experienced Total Accumulation guy, facing him... . Guess who is writing "Mwahahaw" in his diary this evening.

(I don't know how to solve that, but I am highly interested in suggestions. Just increasing the costs further wouldn't do it, I am sure. Maybe the whole calculation with halving accumulation isn't quite right to begin with, and should just produce some penalty of some sort .. don't know.)

Total Accumulation is also 2 point advantage.  To give examples of other 2 point advantage is The Gift, Free Access to any Psychic Discipline, Amplify Sustained Power, etc.  It is about right for a 2 point advantage.  It is not a problem that needs to be solved.

But I state not any of those can compare themself to this advantage. Not really in terms of power here because the nature of the advantages is allready different ("The Gift" alone doesn't make you powerful at all, if you don't spend points for it regularly).
But "Amplify Sustained", "+5 to a Talent Field per level", "+50 MR", "x3 Zeon recovery", or "+6 experience points per session", these are all nothing against an advantage that literally doubles your accumulation as a technician. It is all what you do and what you spend DP for. To get the same amount of power with DP spending, you would have to invest 10 for every point as technician, and normally it isn't possible at all without sacrificing your overall characters natural growth in power, because you could not pay attack and defense anymore.
I think it is even comparable to an magic advantage, that would just double your magic accumulation. ..and wouldn't that be suddenly incredibly necessary too?
It's like you would miss on the essential technician advantage.

And as I said, I don't think further increasing in CP cost will ever fix that. I think it either needs to be cancelled, or the in-fight accumulation process needs to be remodelled at all. (penalty, or just an accumulation offset, or the other way arround, that standing outside of battle just gives you a slight bonus, I don't know)

• You still can't make a cone with KI area attacks.

I was eagerly awaiting more complex area attacks to become possible, so I don't have to ruling-hotfix them anymore (inofficial adjustments always stay a bit unacceptable). The only thing was the "line of destruction", that at least makes hard beams possible, but famous forms like cones, a wide beam (instead of explosions at the end), lines .. still uncharted.

you can just use Area Attack, say that Cone has equal area to Circle (roughly speaking, if Cone was 45 degree angle, Cone will reach about twice as far as the circle, but only in front 45 degree cone)

Yes, that would exactly match, but you are still suggesting to homerule that out. Lets face it: It is not in the rules so far.

There are other forms of area attacks too. Just think of the wide beam that would be the famous flying swordcut. It is definitly an area attack over distance, but there is no way to model it so far.

• KI-Disadvantage "Excessive Energy Use"

Just a curiosity remark, that you can actually make your technique 6 KI points more expensive with the increased cost rules to get 15 MK for it ..or double its cost, up to 50 additional points or something, definitly more, ..for the same outcome.
But I like it, it was absolutely necessesary and I allready helped myself out with this before dominus exxet.

If you have technique that costs 10 Ki and you increase cost by 6, you must accumulate 16 Ki to use it.  If you have technique that costs 10 Ki with excessive energy use, you only need accumulate 10 Ki to use it, you just lose 10 more Ki after using technique.  Big difference.

Ok, this way it is indeed a different type of problem. But it kind of flies off as soon as techniques cost 30 KI and more or so, but is agreeably a different style of disadvantage.

As I said, just a curiosity remark. 15 MK for this, 15 MK for that. 6 Points here, 40 Points there.

• KI Drain like in Supernatural States or the "Suyanta" martial art seem incredibly strong against any KI user.

The standard KI-Drain effect reduces the reserves as fast as a normal lifepoint loss effect, only that you don't have that much here, even as technician. A level 7 character (with 70 PhR) would fail an more mid-strong 140 PhR check on 25 points on avarage, so the technique user destroys 25 KI and gains the same amount back.
With Suyanta, the attack damage gets replaced(/or accompanied on arcane degree) with KI damage, so there isn't a check to counter. A capable martial artist can deliver some really bad, probably the best damage dealing considering all the multi attack possibilities.
Maybe technicians don't get exactly bankrupt, but the "manaburn" is quite slicing, so in a fight with those antitechnicians, you may only be able to count on less than half your original pool, I think.

Many things out there much worse to technicians like Nemesis or Destruction Magic "Destroy Ki"  Suyanta also kind of hard to get.  Is easy to start game with nemesis guy that uses -3 to all Ki accumulations--by time tao has Suyanta, Nemesis technician has -5 to all accumulations.  Most powerful technician in the game with stats, Lord of the Infinite highest accumulation is 6 (but nemesis not affect him unless you have higher gnosis than him so w/e)

This Nemesis Technician league is of course a total different matter. They are anti-supernatualists at heart, or hole.
But just in this "supernatural effect" environment for example, I find it kind of strange that KI Drain reduces as fast than a life point loss effect (don't even mind that you refill yourself with it), because life points are more abundant than KI.
Or think it like this: Is there any power of any kind, that would have destroyed half of an enemys zeon reserve before he could find the time to use it?
I find the cut into powers very harsh here, but that is a personal view i guess. Maybe it was really meant as a more rare fearsome encounter.

Resistance is very weak, anyway.  My entire level 7 part has over 150 resist everything and can make it go over 250.  Smart technician does not use resistance based attacks.

And wouldn't that be a failed-by-design situation in this case .
But just out of curiosity: How the hell did you manage to get that much resistence in everything on level 7? I can't possibly imagine a way to get that if you say, that you can even boost it afterwards (with magic, psy or elan I guess) to 250. A level 16 endboss testcharacter of mine with some charm items (+20 all resistence) and all attributes on 11 didn't quite have that much and could only boost about 40 or 50 more.
Teach me master.

[Lizbeth]

But I state not any of those can compare themself to this advantage. Not really in terms of power here because the nature of the advantages is allready different ("The Gift" alone doesn't make you powerful at all, if you don't spend points for it regularly).
But "Amplify Sustained", "+5 to a Talent Field per level", "+50 MR", "x3 Zeon recovery", or "+6 experience points per session", these are all nothing against an advantage that literally doubles your accumulation as a technician. It is all what you do and what you spend DP for. To get the same amount of power with DP spending, you would have to invest 10 for every point as technician, and normally it isn't possible at all without sacrificing your overall characters natural growth in power, because you could not pay attack and defense anymore.
I think it is even comparable to an magic advantage, that would just double your magic accumulation. ..and wouldn't that be suddenly incredibly necessary too?
It's like you would miss on the essential technician advantage.

This advantage was required badly. Technician is guy with no Defence bonus (can be cured for another 3 cp), 5 hp per level and 5 init per level. First thing he does in combat is placing some kind of defence. Because he is squishy. That's about round two at best — assuming you invested insane ammounts of DP to get Accumulations to 5 so you have 3 after halving. Then he may attack as a common weaponsmaster while accumulating, and asssuming we spent (30 * 4 = 120 DP) to get our accumulations at 5 we are probably on level 7 at least (I'd say level 9-10 because we have to put some points in the pool so we don't get empty after two techniques). Assuming we want to say Lv 3 tech  we have to accumulate for the whole five rounds.. which are likely will be after the combat. So most of the combat you act like a pale version of weaponsmaster.

[Sharpandpointies]

For the cone effect thing, for my character I ran this by the GM.

1.  Calculate the area I would get out of a circle.
2.  Change that circle into the area of a cone.
3.  Reduce it to 75% of the area.
4.  Work out the dimensions of the cone.

The reduction is due to the advantage of having a less-indiscriminate blast.  I figured that would be a little more fair.

He liked the idea, so we're running with that for now.

[alphawhelp]

Yes, as I said. But still, don't you find it kind of disturbing

No.  If it bother you so much, just make it so that the area attack cannot exceed the maximum range of the weapon.  Also remember the maximum range for ranged weapons changes depending on how much strength the user throws and quality of the weapon.  what is outside of maximum range for one person might be within effective range for another.  Range is kind of a fuzzy area in Anima which makes more sense than "I can hit something 100 yards away 100% of the time" like most RPG do it.

I don't see the logic behind that. The technique is about giving boni to compared characteristic checks. That implies every compared characteristic check is possible at first, because there is no written restriction.
Furthermore it is especially mentioned that those boni don't make you more agile or in reality stronger, so you also wouldn't use it to make yourself smarter. However it may look or be explainable, it just gives you 'unfair' advantage somehow.

You cannot use perception and intelligence, totally valid attributes for contested checks, because there is no KI-attribute for it and that automatically implies it without any need of description? They don't especially mention them, just play it down, because it is so obvious?
I think chances are good, that they just forgot about it, because no matter which is true, there would be at least half of a sentence of explanation otherwise.

Actually sorry, I originally thought you were talking about characteristic augmentation and not increased bonus.  Increased Bonus is only meant for combat maneuvers and can only be used to increase STR, DEX, and AGI, because all combat maneuvers call for opposed STR, DEX, and AGI only.

Interesting, what would that be, just a technique without MK limitation?
Would be hard to accomplish, since I never broke the limit so far, though I tried. (but I still always hold back a bit. extraordinary technique needs extraordinary description for me.)

Level 4 technique would just be minimum MK 80 maximum MK 400.  Maybe some other restriction like only one level 4 technique per character, maybe require you master 4 level 3 technique before you can make a level 4 technique.  use imagination if you want to do it.  I do not recommend allowing level 4 technique, however.

But I state not any of those can compare themself to this advantage. Not really in terms of power here because the nature of the advantages is allready different ("The Gift" alone doesn't make you powerful at all, if you don't spend points for it regularly).
But "Amplify Sustained", "+5 to a Talent Field per level", "+50 MR", "x3 Zeon recovery", or "+6 experience points per session", these are all nothing against an advantage that literally doubles your accumulation as a technician. It is all what you do and what you spend DP for. To get the same amount of power with DP spending, you would have to invest 10 for every point as technician, and normally it isn't possible at all without sacrificing your overall characters natural growth in power, because you could not pay attack and defense anymore.
I think it is even comparable to an magic advantage, that would just double your magic accumulation. ..and wouldn't that be suddenly incredibly necessary too?
It's like you would miss on the essential technician advantage.

And as I said, I don't think further increasing in CP cost will ever fix that. I think it either needs to be cancelled, or the in-fight accumulation process needs to be remodelled at all. (penalty, or just an accumulation offset, or the other way arround, that standing outside of battle just gives you a slight bonus, I don't know)

It is an essential technician advantage, just like Amplify Sustained Power is essential Warrior Mentalist advantage.  I have also experimented with several technician characters that have Total Accumulation and did not see them to have any special advantage over the other characters.  It is of appropriate power for a 2 point advantage.

Yes, that would exactly match, but you are still suggesting to homerule that out. Lets face it: It is not in the rules so far.

There are other forms of area attacks too. Just think of the wide beam that would be the famous flying swordcut. It is definitly an area attack over distance, but there is no way to model it so far.

Wide beam of famous flying swordcut is long distance attack + trail of destruction + low level Area Attack IMHO. (attack everything from here to 150 feet, on 3 feet of either side of me, give you 900 sq feet of attack in frontal rectangle)

Ok, this way it is indeed a different type of problem. But it kind of flies off as soon as techniques cost 30 KI and more or so, but is agreeably a different style of disadvantage.

As I said, just a curiosity remark. 15 MK for this, 15 MK for that. 6 Points here, 40 Points there.

Yes, it is a terrible disadvantage for expensive Ki technique, but it is also -15 MK.  Many disadvantages that are -15 MK are very very harsh.

This Nemesis Technician league is of course a total different matter. They are anti-supernatualists at heart, or hole.
But just in this "supernatural effect" environment for example, I find it kind of strange that KI Drain reduces as fast than a life point loss effect (don't even mind that you refill yourself with it), because life points are more abundant than KI.
Or think it like this: Is there any power of any kind, that would have destroyed half of an enemys zeon reserve before he could find the time to use it?
I find the cut into powers very harsh here, but that is a personal view i guess. Maybe it was really meant as a more rare fearsome encounter.

Drain Magic, level 32 Necromancy, can easily destroy lots of Zeon, and the Necromancer gains the Zeon, too.  There are also penalties for low Zeon in Arcana Exxet, so this even affects warrior type characters who typically have very low Zeon.

And wouldn't that be a failed-by-design situation in this case .
But just out of curiosity: How the hell did you manage to get that much resistence in everything on level 7? I can't possibly imagine a way to get that if you say, that you can even boost it afterwards (with magic, psy or elan I guess) to 250. A level 16 endboss testcharacter of mine with some charm items (+20 all resistence) and all attributes on 11 didn't quite have that much and could only boost about 40 or 50 more.
Teach me master.

combination monster powers + daily maintenance Increase Resistances level 16 creation magic + Elan, particularly Mikael elan I have one character giving passive +30 bonus to all resistances for no cost, if they want to get super 200+ resistances, they use level 56 creation magic Protective Aura but this is only good for one combat they can't keep this up all the time.  My party destroys any enemy that depends on resistance for main powers.  Also have a very hard time killing my party because they have mega physical resistances.

Creation magic is overpowered.

[tasuret]

I just wanted to add that your example of an area attack being the only way to throw a dagger farther is wrong, wrong, wrong. Extending the range of an attack is under the "distance attack" effect.

[Rii Nagaja]

Sorry, I was busys during the last week, so I couldn't respond instantly. Hope it is not cold now.

This advantage was required badly. Technician is guy with no Defence bonus (can be cured for another 3 cp), 5 hp per level and 5 init per level. First thing he does in combat is placing some kind of defence. Because he is squishy. That's about round two at best — assuming you invested insane ammounts of DP to get Accumulations to 5 so you have 3 after halving. Then he may attack as a common weaponsmaster while accumulating, and asssuming we spent (30 * 4 = 120 DP) to get our accumulations at 5 we are probably on level 7 at least (I'd say level 9-10 because we have to put some points in the pool so we don't get empty after two techniques). Assuming we want to say Lv 3 tech  we have to accumulate for the whole five rounds.. which are likely will be after the combat. So most of the combat you act like a pale version of weaponsmaster.

I agree that there was something needed to make Technicians powers more useful. The unified KI pool was a good step for example. It is just that the balancing shouldn't come in form of an advantage that you just have to buy by now.
I am not sure if the lacking defense bonus is that downbreaking however, because that it only heavily affects your skills if everyone literally maxes out his attack and defense stats to the rules limit. In that case you would indeed miss on 50 points with level 10, so 25 on average with every stat.
But from what I have seen in the inofficial character guidebook on this forum, people don't tend to go to the very limit all the time, so the technician would have some space to balance his disadvantage out naturally (and he should).

..But I also think that not pushing attack and defense stats to their limits is not that smart, because in Anima this is literally the main power source of most character types. Don't mind attributes, godspeed on Agi 15, or mountain lifitng strength on 16. They strangely don't add anything noteworthy to the "do you win, or not?" compared to just pro-ness in attack (crazily, not even compared characteristic checks are affected too hard - ..you can arm wrestle a dragon and win if you are lucky).
It depends on the playing style, but for those who really optimize their characters (I dare to say: powergame , rightfully so), the technician has surely a disadvantage to work out.

For the cone effect thing, for my character I ran this by the GM.

1.  Calculate the area I would get out of a circle.
2.  Change that circle into the area of a cone.
3.  Reduce it to 75% of the area.
4.  Work out the dimensions of the cone.

The reduction is due to the advantage of having a less-indiscriminate blast.  I figured that would be a little more fair.

He liked the idea, so we're running with that for now.

The calculation that alphawelp presented is actually 100% exact in that matter.
In a circle, the area is proportional to radius[r]^2.
If you are taking an arc of 90° out of this, you are left with excactly a quarter of the original area. (r^2)/4
To get the same area that you paid for with Ki back, you will just have to double the range: ({2r}^2)/4 = (4r^2)/4 = r^2

So yah, to get a 90° cone, you just double the original range of the circle area attack, and that matches exactly.

Though this is the easiest form and simple to remember, you can even make that for different opening arcs by just calculating the proportion of the arc area versus the full circle and translate that into range. For example: a thinner 30° opening arc would cover just 1/12 of the original area (30°/360°). Your new cone range would be the 'root of 12'-times as big as before, and that is 3,46.. (yeah, kind of unhandy to calculate). 40 degree is exactly times 3 though.
I would favor a table really. Simplified, not fully exact, but something to look up fast.

Wide beam of famous flying swordcut is long distance attack + trail of destruction + low level Area Attack IMHO. (attack everything from here to 150 feet, on 3 feet of either side of me, give you 900 sq feet of attack in frontal rectangle)

Hah, I allready thought of this too, but found it is blurry because it could describe two very different situations.
You could assume that the trail of destruction also projects the area attack on every point of the line from the distance attack, so you would indeed have a wide form of a beam.
But what if you would want to make a hard beam attack (distance + trail of destruction) with just an explosion at the end? (..Kame-Hame.., I guess)
You would use the same set of effects, but they greatly differ in the actual area of effect (and should therefore also differ in cost?).

It is not logically coherent that these mixed effects could produce such an outcome. A computer program would spit sparks while being exposed to double-edged conclusions like this.
I did and am still doing this with my techniques nonetheless (and others do it too, as I saw it from Elric on the other forum).
But again, I would like to see some sort of official solution. Flying swordcuts are really standard for Anime these days..

Level 4 technique would just be minimum MK 80 maximum MK 400.  Maybe some other restriction like only one level 4 technique per character, maybe require you master 4 level 3 technique before you can make a level 4 technique.  use imagination if you want to do it.  I do not recommend allowing level 4 technique, however.

Thanks for explanation. I think I will just allow level 3 sustenance somehow and maybe, but not technically make level 4 techniques possible.

This Nemesis Technician league is of course a total different matter. They are anti-supernatualists at heart, or hole.
But just in this "supernatural effect" environment for example, I find it kind of strange that KI Drain reduces as fast than a life point loss effect (don't even mind that you refill yourself with it), because life points are more abundant than KI.
Or think it like this: Is there any power of any kind, that would have destroyed half of an enemys zeon reserve before he could find the time to use it?
I find the cut into powers very harsh here, but that is a personal view i guess. Maybe it was really meant as a more rare fearsome encounter.

Drain Magic, level 32 Necromancy, can easily destroy lots of Zeon, and the Necromancer gains the Zeon, too.  There are also penalties for low Zeon in Arcana Exxet, so this even affects warrior type characters who typically have very low Zeon.

This spell will have good use as soon as these low zeon rules come along, and even then just against non-magical characters. As it is now, I find it is not nearly comparable to Drain KI effects.
Your caster will pay 60 Zeon on basic strength for the enemy to make a 100 MR check or lose double the failure in Zeon. I don't even have to draw my calculator to know, that the loss ratio (your investment vs. the targets loss) will most likely not be in your favor.
The maximum amplification is intelligencex20, so assuming we have a intelligence 10 starting necromancer and he casts this on 200 Zeon value, this just gets the MR up to 170. Even other equally weak level 1 characters with just 40-50 resistence (for a spellcaster) or so, will most likelly not fail by 100 points here to balance it out.
But lets assume you have an infinite supply of Zeon and the ratio doesn't matter. You just want to take down the oppenents Zeon pool as fast as possible. To get to 200 Zeon spell value, normal spellcasters will accumulate 3-4 rounds outside of battle (maybe 2 later in the game). The "Expert Mage" from the core rulebook (MR 65) will fail on this test by an average of 55, thus 110 Zeon loss. He has 685 Zeon by himself, so you would roughly need 3*(2,3 or 4) rounds to take away half of his powers.
Fights usually don't even last that long.

In a quick sample for level 2 KI Drain technique, I got this: 160 PhR or KI Drain with costs of 12 POW and 11 WIL.
You can accumulate that in 4 or later 3 rounds, the same level of enemy (PhR arround 50) will fail on 60 points on average and lose the same amount in KI, which you get if he even had that much left. Even a technician would be at least half dry by now.

The strength of these effects kind of fade away on later levels of course, as with every resistence based attack, and you could of course aid your resistence in both cases with whatever.
But this doesn't take away the pure dimensional difference, that KI users can basically get disarmed and magic or psy users not.


In addition I have to say that KI users can of course regenerate their loses much faster, and this balances it out a bit. Though I think that doesn't interest the technician so much in the moment of battle.

combination monster powers + daily maintenance Increase Resistances level 16 creation magic + Elan, particularly Mikael elan I have one character giving passive +30 bonus to all resistances for no cost, if they want to get super 200+ resistances, they use level 56 creation magic Protective Aura but this is only good for one combat they can't keep this up all the time.  My party destroys any enemy that depends on resistance for main powers.  Also have a very hard time killing my party because they have mega physical resistances.

Creation magic is overpowered.

Wow, I just recognized that Protective Aura alone is pretty much able to make the whole resistence check thing entirely futile (if you had the time to cast it on high level). With intelligence 10: +110 all resistence to everybody you choose in an 4200 feet area, ...well.

Luckily there aren't natural spells so far, because that would make one hell of a buffing paladin.

Range is kind of a fuzzy area in Anima which makes more sense than "I can hit something 100 yards away 100% of the time" like most RPG do it.

I'am not sure if I understood you right, but for me it is Anima that appears to me like this in comparison to most RPGs. Every other I have played -except for DnD (which I don't like)- had at least a table for to hit modifiers on distance, so it would be less likely to hit, or at least less good. Additionally there are different tables for different weapon classes and not just one big for everything (..at least throwing should be different imho).
With Anima you just hit when over a certain score and then hit just as good. The guy who could shoot away a pair of glasses of a person would still either shoot these glasses on a distance of 500 meters, or totally miss.. . If you manage to get an attack score of 240, you will hit that guy on 600 meters with attack 240..

It is inherent in Anima, that this is not easy to change, because it would make ranged attacks alot less powerfull (again, attack scores are just so highly important).
But the visuals are strange. And the "I can hit something 100 yards away 100% of the time" definitely applies here too, or what did you mean?

Another curiosity: In the description box of difficulties in the core rulebook, they say that dodging a bullet in flight by calculating its trajectory is an impossible (280) task, but if the level 1 gunner just scored a mediocre 100, you can actually get away with just a 130 (difficult). *dodge* "Meh. You don't know how to use a pistol."
He would still have been hit, if he decided not to move.

Maybe it could be like you would roll just for hitting, eventually with choosen zone targeting modifiers and other situational mali, and then the actual attack score would be a fixed attack value like with the KI effect Predetermined Attack (and pretty high initially). I think this is the way how most RPGs handle it (in translation).
This way a bullet would allways stay a bullet. For most non-supernatural characters, the best defense is to take cover in advance or just run, so that the guy doesn't even come to hit you (more mali), rather than you have to defend (because it is insane to attempt that normally).
There will be some point of course, where supernatural anime characters will become able to avoid or block ranged attacks with pure skill. So it would need a mechanism that lets supernatural ranged attackers keep the pace. Trick attacks, KI Infusion (aura extension or something that really enhances projectile speed), Ricochet, barrage attacks (for the multiple attacks or rain of arrows defense modifiers), weapon quality (projectile strength could be bound to the predetermined attack value, as it is speed - and therefor harder to dodge/block).
There could be a way out. Something like this would make more sense to me.

I just wanted to add that your example of an area attack being the only way to throw a dagger farther is wrong, wrong, wrong. Extending the range of an attack is under the "distance attack" effect.

Sorry, you got me totally wrong. This discussion point was about the Sagittarius Ars Magnus, not the KI effects.

But for the record: I actually missread the range formula of the area attack as "15 feet + 15 feet for every 50 attack score", but true is: "15 + 15 for every 50 above 200". Now that is a different situation, although you could still have the same problem. Somebody with strength 5 or 6 (not uncommon for with gracefulness sympathizing characters) would have the mediocre throwing range of 30 feet, but could range up to 45 with attack value 300. But I think it doesn't happen so often. It is not that kind of pressing problem as I thought before (with another 60 feet area attack).


Another remark:
..Why does the system imply the need to play a bulky character, if you start of with throwing? Other than gunning or archering characters, a thrower heavily depends on the strength boni to get some range, because the initial value is just so low compared to the intense boni (strength 7 suddenly doubles your range...).
Shouldn't there be a way in an anime like system to make throwing more a thing of grace? I know you can have high strength while appearing slim, but that is just optics. There is no way that a card throwing thief girl can arm wrestle this hulky sailor down.
An advantage or module that replaces the strength distance modifier with dex instead would be nice for example.

[Lizbeth]

I agree that there was something needed to make Technicians powers more useful. The unified KI pool was a good step for example. It is just that the balancing shouldn't come in form of an advantage that you just have to buy by now.
I am not sure if the lacking defense bonus is that downbreaking however, because that it only heavily affects your skills if everyone literally maxes out his attack and defense stats to the rules limit. In that case you would indeed miss on 50 points with level 10, so 25 on average with every stat.
But from what I have seen in the inofficial character guidebook on this forum, people don't tend to go to the very limit all the time, so the technician would have some space to balance his disadvantage out naturally (and he should).

I tested Base Tech in play and I have to say that.. well.. Without Total Accumulation he is the most fragile character in the whole system. With added TA he have options to place some protection.. which gives him +40 on all defensive rolls. Only after adding Combat Sense tech starts to be on par with a simple weaponsmaster.

..But I also think that not pushing attack and defense stats to their limits is not that smart, because in Anima this is literally the main power source of most character types. Don't mind attributes, godspeed on Agi 15, or mountain lifitng strength on 16. They strangely don't add anything noteworthy to the "do you win, or not?" compared to just pro-ness in attack (crazily, not even compared characteristic checks are affected too hard - ..you can arm wrestle a dragon and win if you are lucky).
It depends on the playing style, but for those who really optimize their characters (I dare to say: powergame , rightfully so), the technician has surely a disadvantage to work out.

Our company tend to powergame — my players like big numbers in our charsheets.