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[Releaser...]

Oops. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Releaser...]

Do Ash Slaves gain the organization advantages? For example, Inate mystics and Samael Agents. Can you use the discounted levels to buy abilities?
When you use Absolute Change, do you keep the the abilities of Al Djinn, expecially the inate ones? I guess no but it wouldn't hurt to ask. If you already have an Ash Slave and the use Absolute Change, can you still pay the upkeep cost for the slave on the next turn? Do slaves give VP to the enemy? And if yes, under what condiions (killed, stopped maintain the ability etc)?

When you use the Life Link of Genma to transfer damage to her summons, do you take into account any armor they might have?

[Ape2020]

Do Ash Slaves gain the organization advantages? For example, Inate mystics and Samael Agents. Can you use the discounted levels to buy abilities?

No that ability is for when you buy units to build your party.  Ash Slaves don't cost anything and are not part of your party build thus don't get any level discounts.  They can get Org Advantages like Empire's Combat Mastery or Wiss's The Process.

When you use Absolute Change, do you keep the the abilities of Al Djinn, expecially the inate ones? I guess no but it wouldn't hurt to ask. If you already have an Ash Slave and the use Absolute Change, can you still pay the upkeep cost for the slave on the next turn?

Absolute Change blank everything out on the Djinn except Absolute Change skill and current LP and AP.  Then replaces it with copied units stats, innate abilities, and special skills.  So Ash Slaves disappear instantly.

Do slaves give VP to the enemy? And if yes, under what conditions (killed, stopped maintain the ability etc)?

No they don't cost any levels to create and thus don't award any VP when killed.  They also don't trigger death or destruction effects like those of the Black Lion or Konosuke since they are part of the original Djinn.

When you use the Life Link of Genma to transfer damage to her summons, do you take into account any armor they might have?

No, Damage transferred is not being applied directly from an attack and has already had any armor deducted from it that is on Genma.  This is just like Ayl's or Khaine's special abilities in that damage being copied or transferred is not effected by armor.

-ape2020

[Releaser...]

Thanks Ape2020, helpful as usual.

I guess if you get the Lv50 Al-Djinn, you can choose a Lv5 ability for the Ash slave as there are no 25 Lv agents by default, correct?

I also have another question; why do you have to remove the agents instantly if you do pay the upkeep costs and Al-Djinn uses Absolute Change on the same turn?
The specified requirements are to pay the costs and Al-Djinn being alive. Sure you have to remove them at the beginning of the next turn if you decide to keep Absolute Change active. If you don't, you do have the Ash Slave ability and by the end of the recovery phase you will be able to pay the upkeep costs again.

[Ape2020]

First of all those values for Ash Slaves are guidelines as to how they are built.  Your not paying level for them so they can't be discount levels.

Second I'm not positive on this reason but I see it the Djinn sorta ceases to be in play when he copies another unit.  So one of the conditions for removing Ash Slaves is if the Djinn leaves battle.  If a Djinn becomes say Maximo then he is no longer a Djinn except for Absolute Copy and his current AP and LP.  But again I'm not sure and the Djinn is one of the biggest broken cluster-f@&^ of powers.  Due both to mechanics and wording.

-ape2020

[Lizbeth]

I see it the Djinn sorta ceases to be in play when he copies another unit.

that's quite strange. If he eases to be in play then he must drag all his status counters with itself and other such stuff, which is kinda strange.

So I'd say that ash slaves stay.

[Ape2020]

I see it the Djinn sorta ceases to be in play when he copies another unit.

that's quite strange. If he eases to be in play then he must drag all his status counters with itself and other such stuff, which is kinda strange.

So I'd say that ash slaves stay.

Stat counters?  You mean Positive and Negative States?  Well those are attached to a unit.  Any unit regardless of their name, type, abilities, unless they have a specific rule bar them.  Heck they can be transferred know from one character to another as with Deimon.  Heck even Advantage Cards don't really disappear when characters "leave play" as shown that Control Bound still works if Elienai uses Possession on an enemy unit.  The effect value on that unit is still one higher. 

Then again you could be right.  I'm not positive on it but considering how badly Djinn is worded I could see it going in many directions.

-ape2020

[Releaser...]

First of all those values for Ash Slaves are guidelines as to how they are built.  Your not paying level for them so they can't be discount levels.
-ape2020

I'm not asking about discounts, i'm asking because the Lv50 Al-Djinn upgrades the slaves to 25 Lv.

And i do believe that Djinn still counts for being on the table when you change form.
The way you put it Ape2020 also means that it loses its summon rank, bind counters gains the base size of the copied model etc etc.

Btw, is it written somewhere that armor reduces damage before it's being transferred?

[Releaser...]

No idea about the previous questions, huh?
I also have another interesting question.
Say that Al-Djinn copies Yuki. Then it uses Absolute Zero and at the beginning of the next turn, cancels its ability. Then he copies Yuki again. Can it use Absolute Zero for a second time etc etc?

[Lizbeth]

No idea about the previous questions, huh?
I also have another interesting question.
Say that Al-Djinn copies Yuki. Then it uses Absolute Zero and at the beginning of the next turn, cancels its ability. Then he copies Yuki again. Can it use Absolute Zero for a second time etc etc?

No.

[Ape2020]

Btw, is it written somewhere that armor reduces damage before it's being transferred?

No, but it is written that Armor only applies against attacks and Pushes/Slams if you are a DR unit.  So since transferring is neither it won't apply.  This is true for all Damage effects that are not from an attack: crashes, Poison state, special skills (Reindhold's +Obliration, Ayl's Mimic Damage, etc), innate abilities (Ignis's Fire Aura), Poison State, and Sacrifice (Khaine's Martyr's Sacrifice, Sarah's Stigmata).  All cause damage and all ignore Armor since they are not from an attack.

-ape2020

[Releaser...]

Thanks for the replies.
@Lizbeth: I'm not arguing but is the answer an opinion or written somewhere?

Armor only applies against attacks and Pushes/Slams if you are a DR unit

Ape2020, mind telling me the page that it's written?

Also Ape2020, i recall you said that the rule for the Black Sun's Free Agents has changed. Can you find me the original source (post, FAQ, something) you learnt about that?

Thanks again, i just want me make clear that i'm not arguing with you or trying to abuse the rules, i just want to play the game correctly (i come from a gaming community that likes to play strictly by the rules that's why i'm asking for some solid info). Written language is not helping sometimes.

[Ape2020]

Pg 10 the definition of Armor: "The Character's basic level of protection including the type of Armor worn, as well as its natural Armor.  When an enemy Attack impacts on a Character, the Armor Value is subtracted from the final Damage suffered."

To me that looks like the Armor only comes off an attack.  There is no where else where is says Armor is applied to effects, sacrifice, or innate abilities.  Also from that definition and the wording of Genma's Life Line, damage to her is after any armor she has is deducted if its from an attack.

As for Free Agents ruling its from the latest HELLS III FAQ, the closest thing we have to an official errata source. It has to be translated from Spanish to English so I'm not sure its in the linked document on that page yet but its in that thread.

-ape2020

[Releaser...]

Black Sun is not even listed on the pdf or the first page.
I admit i didn't check very carefully the other pages.
EDIT:I found a spanish FAQ, i guess that's what you are talking about.

About damage now...the only thing that made me wonder is that after you apply the armor, you lose life points, you don't suffer damage (you already did).

Basically, i do think that the intention of the rule for armor is this: when you suffer damage for any reason, you substract the armor value. When you lose life or make a sacrifice, you don't. (i remember a similar concept but i don't recall the game...)

[Ape2020]

Okay got some sleep and now got off my butt and looked up all this junk I spewed.  First off I'm basing my view on Genma's damage transfer on the ruling AS made on if you can apply armor to Ayl's Mimic Damage.

AS ruling

To me Armor is meant to stop physical damage from attacks only.  Damage from effect actions or innate abilities are not from attacks and are usually stopped by Resistance or are considered Sacrifice damage if its from a friendly unit.  

Now back to Ash Slaves, I looked it up (since I remember this ruling) and they do disappear the instant a Djinn changes.  But my thinking on why was a little wrong as I look back on it.  

AS ruling

Basically Absolute Change is partly like Seal, in that the Djinn's own stats and written text is removed (save for Absolute Copy) and replaced by the targeted unit, in a way just like Seal clears out a units written text.  Now Seal will end immediately any continuous effect a unit has regardless if they already paid the upkeep for it.  Ash Slave is a continuous effect and if the rule for it is gone so are they.

-ape2020