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[Spirit_Crusher]

I think a big difference to consider in defense vs initiative is as follows: on defense, the more the attacker wins by, the more damage they do (up to 400%, less with armor)  On initiative, you only have two benefits at distinct values: having higher initiative and acting first, and having 150 higher to achieve surprise.  This is pertinent because having massively negative initiative can at worst give the opponent surprise (resulting in up to 90% more damage IF they hit you).  Having a massively negative defense can give the opponent a much, much more fatal advantage, so I think that in and of itself is a good reason to give final defense a floor of zero.

This is a very good point which I hadn't thought about.

[Lizbeth]

I want to point that character with grossly inferior init will always use the anticipate surprise option, so his "surprise" penalties will be 40, not 90.

[Renozhin]

I want to point that character with grossly inferior init will always use the anticipate surprise option, so his "surprise" penalties will be 40, not 90.

Funny how you can "anticipate surprise". Quite contradictory.

[FearlessElbow]

Yeah, that's one of the weirder rules.  I have never understood it.

"I react slowly, so I expect he'll react much quicker than me and surprise me by doing something I'm not expecting.

So instead I'm going to react quick enough to prepare myself, and be less surprised by expecting the thing I'm not expecting."

Whuh?

[Lizbeth]

This rule means that instead of trying to go first you willingly go last but somehow more prepared to surprise. Anyway this rule exist and with it -90 is an option for cases of Open roll in the combat of roughly equal opponents. Slogturtles are just at -40.

[corruptone]

This rule means that instead of trying to go first you willingly go last but somehow more prepared to surprise. Anyway this rule exist and with it -90 is an option for cases of Open roll in the combat of roughly equal opponents. Slogturtles are just at -40.

Just curious, where is that rule option as I haven't seen it.  I may have just missed it if it is in the core rulebook but if it's in one of the others then I need to know so I can start utilizing it!  :-)

[FearlessElbow]

Actually, IS it even a rule?  I know there is a Ki Technique effect (Foretell) that covers it, but I'm not sure it's a standard rule.

Of course I may just be getting confused.

[Lizbeth]

It is in the Dominus Exxet.

[FearlessElbow]

Yeah, you're right.  I knew I'd seen it somewhere.

Still doesn't make much sense, but it's there.

[VoidKnight]

Yeah, you're right.  I knew I'd seen it somewhere.

Still doesn't make much sense, but it's there.

The fighter is anticipating the next action of their enemy and attempting to predict their next move. If they could fully predict what the enemy would do next then there would be no penalty. Instead they use their training to reduce it to a few possible outcomes much like people playing chess. This way they can put themselves in a position to better react to the quicker opponent's action. That is how I see it.

[FearlessElbow]

I see your point, but if that were the case, and the opponent suddenly used a Ki Technique that the anticipating party hadn't seen before, then they'd still get the full benefit of Surprise.

And they don't.

Which is weird.

[Lizbeth]

I suppose this rule is made for ballance issues becase they decided that it is somehow broken.

[Lagnalok]

I see your point, but if that were the case, and the opponent suddenly used a Ki Technique that the anticipating party hadn't seen before, then they'd still get the full benefit of Surprise.

And they don't.

Which is weird.

Well, in that case the first time you use any power that your enemy dosn't know of would be a suprise attack to begin with.

The rolled Suprise is not that you cant anticipate what your opponent ist going to do next but that what he does is simply to fast for you to follow and anticipate suprise counters exactly that by anticipating that your opponent will be faster than you, thus you are prepared for it and don't get hit by suprise that his reactions are so fast.

Anticipate suprise only works against a rolled suprise (= suprises that are based on a difference in initiative) and not against any other kind of suprise. Also, you get that -40 penalty even if you don't actually get suprised (you got suprised that you didn't get suprised xD), which makes it balanced in normal fights but like anything else can get abused if you build your character arround it. (Dominus Exxet Page 12)