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May 23, 2013, 12:26:56 PM
The Official Anima ForumsAnima - Role Playing GameGame RulesDoes flying fatigue you
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Kalis
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« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2012, 02:18:06 PM »

IMO, no more than any other movement. If you fly your max speed it is the same as running max speed, if you take it slower it is the same as going slower. If you fight, whatever fatigue you spend in battle and for max movement.
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Vash787
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« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2012, 10:38:28 PM »

Now I am even more confused as to what to do Sad
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Lizbeth
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« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2012, 11:26:25 PM »

Now I am even more confused as to what to do Sad
Just do whatever you feel right.
By the rules, however, aerial movement is as fatiguing as normal movement.
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EVILrokzz
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« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2012, 04:16:18 AM »

Now I am even more confused as to what to do Sad
Just do whatever you feel right.
By the rules, however, aerial movement is as fatiguing as normal movement.
Where, exactly, is this stated Huh
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Lizbeth
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« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2012, 04:20:23 AM »

Where, exactly, is this stated Huh
It is not stated that it is not fatiguing. Which is enough.
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EVILrokzz
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« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2012, 04:33:50 AM »

Where, exactly, is this stated Huh
It is not stated that it is not fatiguing. Which is enough.
Then it isn't a rule. These are powers we are talking about, they don't follow "common logic". I mean you're defying gravity. It's different if you flap your arms and fly, that is physical, as for the rest it's logical to assume that they don't follow the same pattern as physical exertion.
Fatigue depends on Constitution and is stated as drained on physical labor.
I really don't see someone getting tired by using their powers since the rules already have systems for that in place Undecided
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GM:"You are strong... stronger than anyone else. The source of your strength is your ability to ignore the strength of others."
Player:"... so... I'm actually weak and stupid, right?"
GM:"YES, that is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!"
Lizbeth
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« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2012, 04:54:31 AM »

Then it isn't a rule.
It's a default rule. If some effect don't say that it overrides it, then the rule stays in play. Otherwise we might end in endless "it's bloody perfectly logical go give me this benefit for free" runt.
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EVILrokzz
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« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2012, 05:08:11 AM »

Then it isn't a rule.
It's a default rule. If some effect don't say that it overrides it, then the rule stays in play. Otherwise we might end in endless "it's bloody perfectly logical go give me this benefit for free" runt.
Um, no it isn't and it isn't for free. You pay for such an ability with Ki, Zeon or use a psychic points (although mentalists can do it at will, but mentalists are op anyway) and then maintain them (also requires small amounts of Ki or Zeon loss, mentalist excluded) Undecided
It is also stated that psychic fatigue isn't like normal fatigue.
What is stated was a general rule dealing with using fatigue on physical actions, that is why it is written in the "Physical Abilities" section. Powers do not completely follow the same rules, that is why they are given their own chapters Smiley
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GM:"You are strong... stronger than anyone else. The source of your strength is your ability to ignore the strength of others."
Player:"... so... I'm actually weak and stupid, right?"
GM:"YES, that is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!"
Lizbeth
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« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2012, 05:33:03 AM »

. You pay for such an ability with Ki, Zeon or use a psychic points (although mentalists can do it at will, but mentalists are op anyway) and then maintain them (also requires small amounts of Ki or Zeon loss, mentalist excluded
You pay the cost for tactical option of flying (and small bonuses to attack and defence if your flight value is high enough). Not for immunity to movement fatigue.
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EVILrokzz
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« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2012, 05:43:10 AM »

Um, you pay to defy gravity... whatever you gain by that is just a bonus Undecided
As I said, you're not moving by physical exertion so fatigue cost is out of the question. You're moving for a supernatural power that isn't easy to explain, and should be treated as such.
Dragonball Z characters flew massive distances. If it cost them fatigue, instead of just Ki, they would be dead beat by the time they got to the fight.
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GM:"You are strong... stronger than anyone else. The source of your strength is your ability to ignore the strength of others."
Player:"... so... I'm actually weak and stupid, right?"
GM:"YES, that is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!"
Kalis
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« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2012, 08:03:13 AM »

Um, you pay to defy gravity... whatever you gain by that is just a bonus Undecided
As I said, you're not moving by physical exertion so fatigue cost is out of the question. You're moving for a supernatural power that isn't easy to explain, and should be treated as such.
Dragonball Z characters flew massive distances. If it cost them fatigue, instead of just Ki, they would be dead beat by the time they got to the fight.

DBZ characters also had like 19 or 20 in every physical stat. It only costs them fatigue if they move max speed(aka sprinting). When Goku was suffering from the heart problem, just flying away from the city to fight Dr Gero and the other android winded him(aka fatigue). When you have 19 agility, moving 1/4 speed is still over 3 miles in 3 seconds.

There is no fatigue cost for maintaining flight, or going a leisurely pace while flying, but going max speed is the same as normal movement.
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Gimp
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« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2012, 09:14:16 AM »

Creating the ability to fly has specific rules for fatigue built into the method chosen.  Magic uses zeon expenditure, Ki uses Ki energy, and psychic powers risk fatigue in activating the power.
 
All of those simply give the ability to fly.
 
Fatigue due to actual movement enhanced by those abilities is not addressed as eliminated in those rules, so the rules for fatigue due to movement would remain.
 
If you just stand still with flight active, you have zeon or Ki being spent, and psychics smiling because they only have problems if they don't use a slot for the power.  All those powers do is give you an ability that is supernatural, and you pay in various ways for an enhancement to your mundane abilities. 
 
Using those abilities once you have them active is no different than using a normal mode of travel, and so the rules for fatigue are applied, as no rule says those rules are circumvented.
 
I would apply normal penalties for fatigue, instead of giving an advantage, because flying is not natural for beings gaining it through a supernatural power, and so the controlled use of it would be far more taxing mentally.
 
A person can walk or run along the ground, and understand the requirements that movement entails because they have spent a lifetime moving along the ground.
 
That same person flying would have several extremely important new factors added to their requiremtns to move effectively and safely. 
You no longer have friction to control yourself with, making turns or stopping much more complicated.
You don't have leverage for moving objects, including wielding weapons.
The wonderful fact of physics, that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, would create havoc until you learned how to control it, but you wouldn't have a lifetime of experience doing that.
 
Those are simple examples, but flying adds a lot of stress to the flyer's considerations for anything they want to do.  I'd consider using heavier fatigue penalties for a period of time until the character had time to practive what they were doing.
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FearlessElbow
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« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2012, 09:34:17 AM »

I have completely the opposite stance on this.  It's all about the difference in the type of reserve that is used to power the movement.

Walking, running etc are powered by utilising your body's reserves.  Your constitution.  Hence, it gradually uses up your constitution and causes fatigue after a while.

Ki Flight is powered by Ki, not your constitution.  Hence, the reserves it uses up are your Ki pool.  Not fatigue.  Of course if you use up too much of your Ki pool, you start to use up your constitution reserves and generate fatigue.  But that's only when you get below 10 Ki, in accordance with the DE rules on low levels of Ki.

The same thing is true with Magic Flight.

Psychic flight is a different beast, and you may have to house rule that, but you can do that on the same basis.  If you're using PP, that's the reserve you're burning up.  If it's innate, it's your body's reserves your using up, so fatigue is applicable.
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Gimp
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« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2012, 10:23:17 AM »

My point is that; while supernatural means power the ability to fly, they do not give an immunity to the fatigue caused by watching out for what you're doing while flying, or specify they negate the rules for fatigue and movement.  The rules say you can fly, but nothing says fatigue from movement does not still apply.
 
The supernatural power grants the ability to fly, and powers it in various ways.  Legs grant you the ability to walk, but they don't negate the fatigue it takes to do so.  A new ability that allows you to fly is no different.
 
Just like driving a car grants you the ability to go very fast for long distances without expending energy, the supernatural powers grant an ability, but it's tiring.
 
An airplane grants a person the ability to fly without expending physical energy to do so, but it is tiring to fly.
 
Even when natural or supernatural things grant an ability, they do not negate the mental strain of using those abilities.  Using an ability when you have to learn new ways to control it would be a far greater strain. 
 
Mental strain can be every bit as fatiguing as physical strain. 
 
Controlling movement, especially when you have less training time in how to do it, is also tiring.
 
I ride a wheelchair.  Even when I'm going down a slope and don't have to push, it takes more energy to keep control of my movement.  I've been doing it for over ten years, and it still does not approach the natural ability of walking, because I'm moving in a way that my body isn't designed for.
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EVILrokzz
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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2012, 10:39:41 AM »

There are two types of flight in creature creation rules. Natural and Mystical.
Natural - flapping wings and it costs you fatigue
Mystical - it requires supernatural power

And done Tongue

As for "learning" to fly, that is what you spend time doing to gain such an ability. You don't get the ability Ki Flight instantly nor do you learn Magic instantly. Mental abilities are just the unlocking of your mind's abilities further so it's instant.
When you know it, you know it and know hot to do it without being a drain... heck, if I could fly, I'd do it as much as possible away from prying eyes Grin
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GM:"You are strong... stronger than anyone else. The source of your strength is your ability to ignore the strength of others."
Player:"... so... I'm actually weak and stupid, right?"
GM:"YES, that is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!"
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