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[Renozhin]

Hello!

Well, as the title states I've just finished writing a background story for my latest character, Armand Deville. It's the first piece of serious writing I've done in what feels like years and it's about five pages long, so I thought I'd post it here so that maybe I could get some real criticism on my work! Don't hold your punches; I want to hear everything from "This is misspelled" to "It is not logical for a person to think that way" or "I want more detail on this and less on this". Also, of course, I would like to hear your opinions on the work from a purely subjective point of view. Is the story of Armand interesting/fun to read? I basically want to know everything you're thinking when you read it.

Thanks, and enjoy!

PS. For some reason it was not possible to attach the document, so I made it accessible at googledocs instead.

[Renozhin]

72 reads (at the moment of writing) and no comments? Does that mean it was boring? Too long? So perfect that nothing could be said about it? So horrible that you don't need to say anything about it? Slightly confused here!

[Cathar the Great]

Short answer is "It's five pages, dude"

Long answer: Don't think too much about the thread views on this forum. Half to two-thirds of that is spambots (registered and unregistered) randomly checking old and new threads (look at Who's Online from time to time and you'll see what I mean)


I personally checked this thread out when you put it up, but I am reluctant to spend time reading something before I know at least a little bit about it first.

You want people to spend time reading your story and criticize it yet you spent only a few minutes on putting it up. "Here is my story, read it and tell me EVERYTHING" is not going to get people to read your story, especially with the unbelievably vast amount of horrible, horrible fan-fiction and short stories on the internet today.

My suggestion would be to spruce up your opening post. Give a short summary of the story (without spoilers) and maybe add a sample paragraph that you think is epecially interesting and will raise interest in the story.

I'm sure you'll be more likely to get some input then.

[Renozhin]

Fair enough, I guess I was kind of hasty when I put this up, so I'll give you guys some more info!

The story is the summary of the life of Armand Deville, written from the subjective perspective of Armand himself. He travels the world, only to finally find himself in an unlikely situation.

In my own opinion, which is oh so very humble, I think it's pretty well written! I have gotten some feedback from other sources, so I am mainly interested in hearing your thoughts about it in the Gaïa context. If you're the least interested; go ahead and read the first paragraph. If you don't find it interesting you can always just stop reading.

And so heeding to the advice of Cathar, I'll give you a quote from the first paragraph of the opening.

“You have to get out of here! The mayor will not let this be! Run Armand!” There was no person I respected or trusted more than my sister, so I ran. I ran until my lungs burned and my legs felt like lead, and then I ran some more. Finally my vision blackened and the last thing I remember before passing out was throwing up.

[Lizbeth]

I think it's pretty well written! I have gotten some feedback from other sources

You see, I saw many "sources" that are very polite in nature (sometimes because moderators will punish anyone acting otherwise). Or sometimes these sources are just friends (not to mistake with the best friends). In any case it's nearly impossible to receive feedback like "mater dei my eyes are bleeding" even if you write something terrible like twilight fan fiction.

You can post your story here http://boards.4chan.org/tg/ however.

[spacemonkey]

Well five pages was pretty daunting given the lack of info this morning (good job on taking Cathar's advice in your most recent post). Anyway here are my thoughts:

• From a technical stand point the story is written very well. No blatant spelling or grammar errors to my memory. Furthermore the story flows reasonably well though there are still a couple rough patches; something that often helps me in writing is reading each paragraph out loud once or twice listening for any of the sentences that seem too wordy or confusing.
• While by the end of the story I understand this tale is meant to be written by Armand's own hand, there isn't really a consistent feel for the intended audience. It weaves between the feel of a journal/dairy and a letter. There would be a difference in the detail and focus in something written for oneself and something written for another person. In particular I found the mention of the brothel an odd aside give the stated audience.
• In regards to the setting, one thing worth adding might be Armand's origin country/province. It's implied he's from somewhere in the core of the Abel Empire but really few details otherwise. Such a simple detail can add a deeper layer to to the character for those who know the world of Gaia.
• In regards to Armand's hashishiyyin training, I found a few things odd. For one I would think it extremely rare to for such an insular group to train an outsider much less someone from the hated Christian Empire. Estigia also seems an odd place for his training as my understanding puts the hashishiyyins operating out of Kushistan. The real stickler for me is the initiation rite Armand's masters put him through. The mathematics of two trainers being killed for each student doesn't lend itself to the longevity the order. Ultimately these given elements could work together if Seth and Hamadi were say from a rogue faction of hashishiyyins but there needs to be a little more explanation into their background and the circumstances of Armand's training. If you do want to change something, there is a precedent for hashishiyyin apprentices killing off their peers to succeed.
• In regards to Armand's training with Ichiro, the time frame seems extremely short. Three months seems too short of a time for "fluency" in such foreign language and five months is too short to master a fundamentally different form of assassination techniques/martial arts. While Anima characters tend to be of extraordinary nature, it would help to make particular mention of Armand's talents and skills in these areas (if he has such capabilities).
• Something else worth giving some particulars on would be the nature the needles Armand uses throughout the story. Are we talking short sewing needles, long thin acupuncture needles, or something else entirely?
• The part with the High Inquisitor assassination attempt seemed weird to me. I don't see it as making much sense for High Inquisitor to be stationed in Lannet given the general religious tensions and the limited availability of Inquisitors of that rank. Furthermore sending an unproven assassin against such a powerful and highly influential enemy seems inadvisable. The actual encounter is fantastical and cool but offers no explanation of the ramifications of the event.
• In Armand's final encounter with Alphonso you say "I simply batted the spell aside with my hand...". Where/when does Armand learn to ward off magic so casually? Magic isn't something commonly seem to the inhabitants of Gaia so training to counter it would be a very specific skill set worth mentioning earlier.
• Armand being made a Shiek (which I'm not sure is a position in the Kushistan hierarchy)is an element that seems too far fetched for me. Killing a personal enemy of "the Sultan" (I'm assuming you mean the Grand Sultan) would place Armand in very high regard and net him a significant monetary reward, however given Armand's background (again someone from the hated Christian Empire) it would be highly unlikely for Armand to receive such an important and trusted position (assuming a comparable position exists).

Overall the story presents an interesting character with a lot of potential in a RPG but could use some revision to better fit in the Gaia world.

[Renozhin]

First of all, a huge thank you for reading it and providing such fantastic feedback spacemonkey!


Now, to face the music!

• From a technical stand point the story is written very well. No blatant spelling or grammar errors to my memory. Furthermore the story flows reasonably well though there are still a couple rough patches; something that often helps me in writing is reading each paragraph out loud once or twice listening for any of the sentences that seem too wordy or confusing.

Thank you! I'll definitely take that advice and try the reading out loud technique.

• While by the end of the story I understand this tale is meant to be written by Armand's own hand, there isn't really a consistent feel for the intended audience. It weaves between the feel of a journal/dairy and a letter. There would be a difference in the detail and focus in something written for oneself and something written for another person. In particular I found the mention of the brothel an odd aside give the stated audience.

I must say that I agree, especially with the last part. It was written before I knew to whom he was writing and it does not quite fit in. I'll look over the text and see if I can make some minor adjustments to the text to make it more logical as something written intended for another person.

• In regards to the setting, one thing worth adding might be Armand's origin country/province. It's implied he's from somewhere in the core of the Abel Empire but really few details otherwise. Such a simple detail can add a deeper layer to to the character for those who know the world of Gaia.

I had not even realized that I didn't mention where Armand is from, which is Gabriel by the way, and yes. I should definitely add that!

• In regards to Armand's hashishiyyin training, I found a few things odd. For one I would think it extremely rare to for such an insular group to train an outsider much less someone from the hated Christian Empire. Estigia also seems an odd place for his training as my understanding puts the hashishiyyins operating out of Kushistan. The real stickler for me is the initiation rite Armand's masters put him through. The mathematics of two trainers being killed for each student doesn't lend itself to the longevity the order. Ultimately these given elements could work together if Seth and Hamadi were say from a rogue faction of hashishiyyins but there needs to be a little more explanation into their background and the circumstances of Armand's training. If you do want to change something, there is a precedent for hashishiyyin apprentices killing off their peers to succeed.

Yes, this is definitely a tough one. I chose the hashishiyyin (thanks for the spelling by the way) to somehow introduce one main important thing; the fact that Alphonso is a person who has lots and lots of connections in strange places. I'm not sure if this fact is noticed by readers, but it is quite important. Many key tidbits and facts are left out of this story, such as why would those two accept teaching Armand, but seeing how Armand is simply remembering how things happened, and so there is no "storyteller truths" or such. One of the reasons for this is the fact that this is a background story for a character that I have just started playing, and I expect to learn some of these truths myself soon enough! Anyway, back to your feedback. The thing about being from the hated Empire is very true, and one I really tried to make work, and it was actually a request from my GM since he wanted someone from Abel to be in the group even though we are playing in Kushistan. I imagine (but I can't say for sure in case my GM has some other explanation) that Alphonso had some magical way of getting the hashishiyyin to teach Armand, and I also expect that he used some kind of mind control to make them attack him as "a final test" in order to get rid of the evidence of Armand being taught. I could ask my GM, since this is not really important for my character, if I could add some hints to that in to clarify!

Oh, and the Estigia thing was mainly to keep Armand out of Kushistan so that I could introduce it as the "final destination" (since it is where we are playing our campaign) later on to keep up the feel that he has been moving around all this time. It might be a little weird or offish, but I think that detail worked out in the end.

• In regards to Armand's training with Ichiro, the time frame seems extremely short. Three months seems too short of a time for "fluency" in such foreign language and five months is too short to master a fundamentally different form of assassination techniques/martial arts. While Anima characters tend to be of extraordinary nature, it would help to make particular mention of Armand's talents and skills in these areas (if he has such capabilities).

Ah, yes, I think this was my moment of weakness: "my character is so cool, he can totally learn all this stuff really fast!" *cough* I think I might just go change that right away.

• Something else worth giving some particulars on would be the nature the needles Armand uses throughout the story. Are we talking short sewing needles, long thin acupuncture needles, or something else entirely?

Well, it is stated in the story that Ichiro uses a "long, slender needle", but perhaps that is not enough? In my mind he is using sewing needles, but I could definitely flesh that out. In fact, I could probably flesh out the whole training ordeal with Ichiro a bit more.

• The part with the High Inquisitor assassination attempt seemed weird to me. I don't see it as making much sense for High Inquisitor to be stationed in Lannet given the general religious tensions and the limited availability of Inquisitors of that rank. Furthermore sending an unproven assassin against such a powerful and highly influential enemy seems inadvisable. The actual encounter is fantastical and cool but offers no explanation of the ramifications of the event.

I included the "incident" with the High Inquisitor for one reason, and that is to explain two of his disadvantages; Enemy of the Inquisition and Atrophied Limb. As such, the lack of explanation of the ramifications is simply a matter of him not having felt any of them yet (but it is something I am very much looking forward to in game!). I added in the part of probably having to deal with the consequences much later to try to explain the long-term problems. That said, I could slightly lower the rank of the officer, but I'm not sure if that would fix the problem. On the other hand, the way I see it concerning sending an untrained assassin, I think Ichiro and/or his organization if he has one simply wanted Armand to try. If he succeeded then that's great, if he failed then, well, that's not a huge loss. Tension might rise, but that might be an alternative they could live with. This is probably just rationalization on my part though.

• In Armand's final encounter with Alphonso you say "I simply batted the spell aside with my hand...". Where/when does Armand learn to ward off magic so casually? Magic isn't something commonly seem to the inhabitants of Gaia so training to counter it would be a very specific skill set worth mentioning earlier.

The way I see it is that Armand learned much of the way of Ki while training, and so he knows Presence Extrusion and can touch magic in that way. The way I see it is that it is an embellishment on Armand's part when writing the story, most likely things happened differently. It might be more reasonable to just change some things in the fight description to make it more logical.

• Armand being made a Shiek (which I'm not sure is a position in the Kushistan hierarchy)is an element that seems too far fetched for me. Killing a personal enemy of "the Sultan" (I'm assuming you mean the Grand Sultan) would place Armand in very high regard and net him a significant monetary reward, however given Armand's background (again someone from the hated Christian Empire) it would be highly unlikely for Armand to receive such an important and trusted position (assuming a comparable position exists).

This is definitely far fetched and I know it. About the Sheik thing, I'm not sure if that's a position in the heirarchy either but there is no mention of their rank names in the Gaïa book, so Sheik seemed at least partly logical. Yes, I'm talking about the Grand Sultan *added in*. The actual title is an integral part of the campaign story, and while it is unlikely at least it is an attempt at trying to make it organic. He is still not trusted enough to actually do much, which is quite obvious when we play, but the title is his and it earns him at least some respect from the locals, despite his relatively white skin.

Overall the story presents an interesting character with a lot of potential in a RPG but could use some revision to better fit in the Gaia world.

Thank you again! I'll try to make some modifications, like I've mentioned, to fit better into the setting. Wonderful feedback once again, and I hope you enjoyed reading it

[Renozhin]

I think it's pretty well written! I have gotten some feedback from other sources

You see, I saw many "sources" that are very polite in nature (sometimes because moderators will punish anyone acting otherwise). Or sometimes these sources are just friends (not to mistake with the best friends). In any case it's nearly impossible to receive feedback like "mater dei my eyes are bleeding" even if you write something terrible like twilight fan fiction.

Completely true, which is why I posted here in the first place

Also, no thank you on the 4chan suggestion. I'm not a masochist.

[Spirit_Crusher]

It is quite well written, but it shows what I believe to be some flaws in both structure and characterization:

1:"What was the difference between saving someone and murder"? No way an eight\nine years old can go to that depth in ethics and morals; he simply can not have the maturity of thought, no matter how clever he is. Reminiscent of the "senex puer" of roman-etrurian culture. Also, it's not very likely to be the first thought jumping to ANYONE's mind in that situation. The thought can come maybe an hour later. Surely not from a child, though.

2:Even it not specified, the tale strongly implies Armand believing Alphonso's "destruction" of Armand's sister's "figure". How it is Armand is so deep and mature 5 minutes before this, but he immediately believes the words of a stranger soiling the image he had of the most important person of his life? First Armand seems to have more dept, presence of spirit and resolve than any child is age. Then, he seems to have LESS...'Cause even an average children would object to "big sis doesn't love you", expecially if his past experiences have been opposite.

3:After the Ḥashshāshīn ordaly, Armand cries...What? And "I still didn't want to kill anyone" too.
They spent eight years teaching him killing tecniques but they did zero to brainwash him into a real assassin? That is the exact contrary of how it works. They brainwash you first, then they teach you tecniques. This goes for any young assassin\soldier training group, ever. If you want to play against the role here, you have to specify how it came to be. Maybe one of the two teachers was too human? Armand cheated them into believe he was brainwashed, but he wasn't?

4: Armand homicidally lashing out at Ichiro... Wasn't he the one that "still didn't want to kill anybody?" Pretty extreme reaction for someone like that.

This is for characterization.

Structure:
the majority of the tale is spent narrating how Armand becomes an assassin; then he just kills his patron, and by a lucky strike his life is changed completely and he goes on to do something else entirely, with no resemblance whatsoever to the previous part of his life.
 It's like describing in a short story the gruelling adolescence of a teenager forced by an osessive father to spend days and night playing piano to be the greatest musician of all time, and concluding the tale by saying: "but at eighteen I discovered I could put my natural endowment, a wanger the size of a cotto salami, to good use. I went on to be a porn actor, which I still am. The end."
You should either give more relevance to Armand's years as a politician\merchant prince\whatever, OR start the tale by saying: "you know me as a merchant, but the truth about the most important part of my life, my upbringing, is...".

Style:
-Alphonso is shown to be a sneaky and manipulative character. Armand is a trained assassin. Their final confrontation being born by a simple hot blooded altercation is unstylish.

-Ichiro fixation on language is too Pai Mei.

On the positive side:
-the prose seems good and fluid to me.
-the geographical scope of the tale and "twists of fate" taste like 18th\early 19th century novels, or Barry Lindon , whichever you prefere, and that is good.
-Despite being clichè, Alphonse comes out as a convincing character
-"their skill lived in m now, and if I could defeat them, then they needed not live to gain glory in the afterlife" was pure gold. Synthetic and epic.
-the unexpected Ichiro kindness at the end of that part was a nice little twist

[Renozhin]

Wonderful critique, thank you so much! I'll try to give a few comments on your thoughts!

1:"What was the difference between saving someone and murder"? No way an eight\nine years old can go to that depth in ethics and morals; he simply can not have the maturity of thought, no matter how clever he is. Reminiscent of the "senex puer" of roman-etrurian culture. Also, it's not very likely to be the first thought jumping to ANYONE's mind in that situation. The thought can come maybe an hour later. Surely not from a child, though.

You're completely right here; as soon as I read your comment I realized how stupid that thought is. I think it was one of the things that ties into what you say in your other comments, namely that Armand seems to be kind of hard to grasp. Is he cold and calculating, mature or immature? Well, I think that it all stems from the fact that I didn't really know when I started writing. Good thing I can make changes!

2:Even it not specified, the tale strongly implies Armand believing Alphonso's "destruction" of Armand's sister's "figure". How it is Armand is so deep and mature 5 minutes before this, but he immediately believes the words of a stranger soiling the image he had of the most important person of his life? First Armand seems to have more dept, presence of spirit and resolve than any child is age. Then, he seems to have LESS...'Cause even an average children would object to "big sis doesn't love you", expecially if his past experiences have been opposite.

Very good point. I'm leaning towards adding in hints to the fact that Alphonso was using some form of mind control/manipulation magic to lend credibility to the fact that Armand accepts the premise.

3:After the Ḥashshāshīn ordaly, Armand cries...What? And "I still didn't want to kill anyone" too.
They spent eight years teaching him killing tecniques but they did zero to brainwash him into a real assassin? That is the exact contrary of how it works. They brainwash you first, then they teach you tecniques. This goes for any young assassin\soldier training group, ever. If you want to play against the role here, you have to specify how it came to be. Maybe one of the two teachers was too human? Armand cheated them into believe he was brainwashed, but he wasn't?

This is a very good point which I hadn't thought of. I guess I've just been so set on playing a character who is very good at killing but who doesn't actually want to do so. Your suggestions are excellent, and I will try and add to the part in order to make Armand resistance more apparent. (And I took out the part about the tears and instead wrote the much more dramatic line: "I was shaking with the shock of the adrenaline leaving my body and Alphonso did nothing to console me, leaving me with only my own bloody hands and a barren landscape for company."

4: Armand homicidally lashing out at Ichiro... Wasn't he the one that "still didn't want to kill anybody?" Pretty extreme reaction for someone like that.


This is for characterization.

Oh yeah, well, in my head it was more like muttering "Meh, should've taken Main Street instead of Highland Park Ave."; he had to do something to escape, and he didn't want to die himself, so he figured it was either kill Ichiro and make a break for it or do the deed. Now that I think about it, and now that you point it out, it might be a pretty bad alternative solution

Structure:
the majority of the tale is spent narrating how Armand becomes an assassin; then he just kills his patron, and by a lucky strike his life is changed completely and he goes on to do something else entirely, with no resemblance whatsoever to the previous part of his life.
 It's like describing in a short story the gruelling adolescence of a teenager forced by an osessive father to spend days and night playing piano to be the greatest musician of all time, and concluding the tale by saying: "but at eighteen I discovered I could put my natural endowment, a wanger the size of a cotto salami, to good use. I went on to be a porn actor, which I still am. The end."
You should either give more relevance to Armand's years as a politician\merchant prince\whatever, OR start the tale by saying: "you know me as a merchant, but the truth about the most important part of my life, my upbringing, is...".

This is a very good and valid point! However I believe that, since this is all still a backstory to a character who is very much alive and not in the least "finished", it more represents a turning point in his life. "Finally a chance to do something that doesn't involve killing." The interesting part of this is of course playing Armand as the character he is now; half trader Sheik and half unwilling assassin. The letter will be given to the character who is playing the "daughter" when I deem fit and then go on to see where that takes our campaign, hoping that our GM has prepped some awesome stuff (like her character having some kind of tie to the Inquisition perhaps) for it! Also, the way I'm playing Armand (we've played two sessions so far) he tries his best to hide his skills from the other PCs, and I'm trying my best to hide his abilities from the other players, so it will be interesting to see how they react when they realize Armand has been faking not being able to fight!

Preparing the "audience" for what happens in the end seems like a bit too much, and I don't really know where I would insert it, but it is something I'll remember for future pieces!

Style:
-Alphonso is shown to be a sneaky and manipulative character. Armand is a trained assassin. Their final confrontation being born by a simple hot blooded altercation is unstylish.

I agree, to some extent, but the way I see it Alphonso wasn't really trying to hurt Armand, just get another mind control/manipulation spell on him. Armand simply reacted on instinct, assuming it was an attack. I've juggled a few other ideas, and I might change it later, but right now I don't really have any good enough alternatives.

-Ichiro fixation on language is too Pai Mei.

Hah, I hadn't even thought about that! Subconscious stuff I guess. Anyway, I found that part to be cool, so I'm keeping it

On the positive side:
-the prose seems good and fluid to me.
-the geographical scope of the tale and "twists of fate" taste like 18th\early 19th century novels, or Barry Lindon , whichever you prefere, and that is good.
-Despite being clichè, Alphonse comes out as a convincing character
-"their skill lived in m now, and if I could defeat them, then they needed not live to gain glory in the afterlife" was pure gold. Synthetic and epic.
-the unexpected Ichiro kindness at the end of that part was a nice little twist

Once again, thank you immensely for the feedback! I hope you enjoyed reading it as well