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[Spirit_Crusher]

Just "blanks filled"... I absolutely didn't "erase" anything, I just added\riffed on the setting.

[Lizbeth]

I don't mean that you erased something. I meant that these good people can erase thw whole setting at the culmination of their struggle.

[Lia Valenth]

I don't mean that you erased something. I meant that these good people can erase thw whole setting at the culmination of their struggle.

I'm not sure that I understand your statement, but isn't the point of a campaign of such magnitude to change the entire world?

[Sharpandpointies]

Chimera messes everything up, essentially making someone into a Gnosis 25 creature.

Not in this case. It won't mess with Natura.

I view as making Natura somewhat unimportant.  Open rolls as normal, with Gnosis 25's 'usual' impact on the world. 

The character is no longer a member of their 'race', so 'Natura' for them doesn't really exist any more.

Well, I'd say that Elisabetta is one of the worst npcs. Her Mary Sueish stuff like being chosen, The One and other like this risks to turn game in to "watch how special she is".

I've got no problem with her and Gnosis 20, so long as she doesn't wander into the game and remove the spotlight from the players.

She can be IN the game (and has been, in my game, though the players aren't aware as yet), but taking the spotlight from the players is a no-no.

Personally, I think she makes a great NPC, depending on how she's played.  Like most NPC's.

Milage may vary.

Also it's excuse to have more than one open roll and to have some weird events to happen around you. 

Pretty much.  So, business as usual for an RPG, except there's actually a reason for players and certain NPC's to get slightly different rules.

[Spirit_Crusher]

I don't mean that you erased something. I meant that these good people can erase thw whole setting at the culmination of their struggle.

Pretty much. That's the plan, but it remains to be seen what the players will do.

[Lizbeth]

I'm not sure that I understand your statement, but isn't the point of a campaign of such magnitude to change the entire world?

Well, it depends on personal tastes. I prefer long-term worlds that can live through several campaigns over one campaign that completely remakes the world in to something like home brew.

She can be IN the game (and has been, in my game, though the players aren't aware as yet), but taking the spotlight from the players is a no-no.

Personally, I think she makes a great NPC, depending on how she's played.  Like most NPC's.

Sure thing anyone can introduce her in the game and such but she is designed to be a star in the spotlight, so making her less significant is something like a HOUSE RULE.

[FearlessElbow]

Not really - isn't that kind of the point of her Anna Never identity?  So she can easily appear in-campaign without being the obvious spotlight star that she'd be as Empress Elisabetta?

[Lizbeth]

She gets her spotlight not because some empress have tons of groupies who throw their panties on her on sight.
She gets her spotlight because reality says "Natura 20? Hey you, Eli.. ahem, Anna, you're the star, go on participate in this cool event".

[vytzka]

But which setting characters show up and what do they do to the PCs depends heavily on what the PCs themselves focus on. Lisa might be very cosmically important behind the scenes but the PCs don't have to see her until they're at least level 10 and then only for a single boss fight after which they make a run from Nemesis in an as of now Elisabetta-free world.

Having her non-participate in some important thing for setting reasons (maybe she's doing something else?) is stretching the definition of houserules quite a bit. Unless I misread the Natura rules they don't guarantee you're going to necessarily be present for every important thing, just more likely. I.e. up to the GM.

It's sort of like in Exalted where they have all those Essence 10 uber NPCs and some people can't wrap their heads around the fact that said NPCs have jobs to do other than messing with the player characters.

[Sharpandpointies]

She can be IN the game (and has been, in my game, though the players aren't aware as yet), but taking the spotlight from the players is a no-no.

Personally, I think she makes a great NPC, depending on how she's played.  Like most NPC's.

Sure thing anyone can introduce her in the game and such but she is designed to be a star in the spotlight, so making her less significant is something like a HOUSE RULE.

This, in my experience isn't the case. 

She's the star of the setting, in the same way that Elminster (ugh) is the star of Ed Greenwood's D&D settings, etc.  A lot of importance is placed on her, stuff happens around her, she will get involved in a lot of big events.

This doesn't mean she's the star of the campaign.

Events will happen in which she is involved, but doesn't play the winning role.  Elisabetta gets kidnapped by some godly being, the players need to save her - there's a cliché and one I'd not use, but it makes the point.  She might show up and just be there.  She might have precipitated the thing the players have to stop.  A being of power might start meddling because of her and the players have to stop it.  She might be there and assist the players, but they're the ones who end up dealing with the issue.  Or, in many cases, she'll be somewhere else in the world while the players deal with a different problem.

Just because she's billed as the big, important character in the game setting...nowhere does that say she's the star of the GM's campaign.  Far from it.

Milage may vary, but that's how I figure it.

[Lizbeth]

But which setting characters show up and what do they do to the PCs depends heavily on what the PCs themselves focus on. Lisa might be very cosmically important behind the scenes but the PCs don't have to see her until they're at least level 10 and then only for a single boss fight after which they make a run from Nemesis in an as of now Elisabetta-free world.

You cannot run away from the Nemesis. And I hope the Eli-Nemesis arc will not end in some love story or something retarded like this.

She's the star of the setting, in the same way that Elminster (ugh) is the star of Ed Greenwood's D&D settings, etc.  A lot of importance is placed on her, stuff happens around her, she will get involved in a lot of big events.

This doesn't mean she's the star of the campaign.

Yup. So I have to avoid using her in campaigns — otherwise she is destined to be the in the centre of the stage. Or I'll have to HOUSERULE/interpret Gnosis-Nature rules in a very.. creative way.

[vytzka]

Considering that, as far as I know, Nemesis doesn't have, well, stats, I would take the statements about what a double digit level characters can or can not do about him with a grain of salt

Also I think an Elisabetta x Nemesis love story would be at least less trite and predictable than Elisabetta x Lucanor! Elisabetta x Hime would be my choice though (they are both royal persons who like wandering around! With apologies to Takonosuke.)

[Lizbeth]

Considering that, as far as I know, Nemesis doesn't have, well, stats, I would take the statements about what a double digit level characters can or can not do about him with a grain of salt

Also I think an Elisabetta x Nemesis love story would be at least less trite and predictable than Elisabetta x Lucanor!

Nemesis have fluff. He is as strong as Eljared, and Eljared can oneshot Omega and Filisnogos.

Still Eli x Nemesis story suck [beep]s. Exceptional Human Girl who is loved by Powerful Supernatural creature story is better left for Twilight.

Elisabetta x Hime would be my choice though (they are both royal persons who like wandering around! With apologies to Takonosuke.)

While I find your idea quite hilarious, I'd prefer someone to remove Elisabetta from the world, not to cuddle with her.

[Spirit_Crusher]

Still Eli x Nemesis story suck [beep]s. Exceptional Human Girl who is loved by Powerful Supernatural creature story is better left for Twilight.

Ahahahahahaha! You owe me a new monitor, since I sprouted green ice tea from the nose all over mine reading this!   

However, I don't dislike the idea that much, since from the small chunk of info on Nemesis we have, he's pretty f*ckin' inhuman emotively, and it's Elisabetta who's in love with him, not vice-versa.

[Sharpandpointies]

Yup. So I have to avoid using her in campaigns — otherwise she is destined to be the in the centre of the stage. Or I'll have to HOUSERULE/interpret Gnosis-Nature rules in a very.. creative way.

She doesn't have to be the center stage of the play at hand.  She could be involved, but it doesn't mean she has the capacity to fix whatever problem is the current issue, or whatever. 

Having Gnosis 20 doesn't give her 'super problem solve' ability.  It just means that crap happens around her, or she gets dragged into crap.    She could be the CAUSE of a problem, not the solution.  She could be an observer.  She could be...heck, one should get my idea by now. 

But milage may vary in her use.  I can understand people not liking a character, and wanting to avoid them.