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[Lizbeth]

I recently analysed the Core tech tree Ignis. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zx2EO8zOXTOT1StlabA0TA-N65D6naLUdTEPvHhiBGo/edit

I found this tech tree poorly made and made my own calculations. So the question is, what do you think about Core variant of this tech and am I missing something?

[Spirit_Crusher]

I think that many of the techs are suboptimal. I have pcs and npcs creating their own on a regular basis and at best steal the aesthetics from the premade ones.

[Lizbeth]

Creating own techs leads to boring and unballanced stuff in case of powergaming.

[FearlessElbow]

Or alternatively it leads to a deeper character-creation process that means the techs match the personalities of the characters themselves.  One or the other.

I mean, there's a pretty huge amount of page-space dedicated to tech creation in both the Core Rules and Dominus Exxet, so one could infer that the game designers might actually think personalised techs are a good idea.

[Spirit_Crusher]

Creating own techs leads to boring and unballanced stuff in case of powergaming.

I don't agree in the least. Aside from predetermined ataccks\defenses, Ki stuff isn't unbalanced, and it seems just natural for a character to develop tecniques fitting his\her own strenght and weaknesses.

[Lizbeth]

Or alternatively it leads to a deeper character-creation process that means the techs match the personalities of the characters themselves.

Please tell me how +100 attack technique helps to describe character's personality.

I don't agree in the least. Aside from predetermined ataccks\defenses, Ki stuff isn't unbalanced, and it seems just natural for a character to develop tecniques fitting his\her own strenght and weaknesses.

It's quite unbalanced as you have to provide opponents with some countermoves. Unless you want combats to end with some 150 damage called shot right in the head or trapping manoeuvre.

[VoidKnight]

It's up to the skill of the one creating the techniques to not make it something completely overpowered and disgusting. I've had lots of circumstances in my games where players have created their own Ki trees that have turned out really well and in character. None yet have made something grossly munchkin-like that needed me to step in.

For example, one of my players is working for Wissenschaft after they found out about his Ancient Blood. He uses a set of techniques based around his blood legacy and his shield. He focused on maneuvers that looked really cool and put him on par with the other wizard and psychic in his group. His most favorite ability is a Minor Sustained Exosuit that increased his armor and movement value. Most of the premade techniques we have found to be decidedly bad for PC use. Other than a few examples like The Path of Meizo, the ones given have awkwardly balanced Ki costs that we do not want to deal with.

[FearlessElbow]

Or alternatively it leads to a deeper character-creation process that means the techs match the personalities of the characters themselves.

Please tell me how +100 attack technique helps to describe character's personality.

In isolation?  It doesn't.  Much.

But in conjunction with other effects?  It does so quite a lot.

I've got a Technician who's a pacifist and he's got techniques in his tree (a tree called Pax Totalis) that utilise a +100 Attack effect.  One of which uses the +100 Attack to hit an area status effect of Fascination on his opponents, so they just stand and stare at him.  And another with +75 Attack but does no damage, intended for use in disarming.

So yeah, in conjunction with other effects it can say quite a lot about their character.

[Kalis]

Or alternatively it leads to a deeper character-creation process that means the techs match the personalities of the characters themselves.

Please tell me how +100 attack technique helps to describe character's personality.

I would think the obvious one would be that the character has an offensive focus for his combat style. Whether that is because the character is aggressive in nature, or he doesn't like combat and wants to end it as fast as possible is up to the player.

[Rii Nagaja]

Or alternatively it leads to a deeper character-creation process that means the techs match the personalities of the characters themselves.

Please tell me how +100 attack technique helps to describe character's personality.

In isolation?  It doesn't.  Much.

But in conjunction with other effects?  It does so quite a lot.

I second that.

Not only for the effect combination, but also for the description (a technique with similar effects could have very different visuals). The last character I recently created made his whole fighting style and soul by his chosen techniques, who all aimed for flashiness in speed while dancing. There was no way to get that from any module or secondary skill combination.

Even a standard technique like a blade beam can be for example either a brute demonstration of power through a big devastating powerstream, or a more filigran flowing slice. This would allready tell alot about the acting character.

The whole technique thing in the anime-genre generaly is in its essence kind of an overstated display of the characters core. They scream out their style.

[Raybras]

proof that techniques created are usually fit for a character
i made this tree a little while back (December i think)

GAIA'S VENGEANCE:
Developed by a follower of Rafael, also known as Mother Nature, this school makes use of the natural elements to combat those who would do harm to people and nature alike. The majority of these techniques reflect upon the users own experience.
Techniques: 5 Total MK: 385

STORM TIGER
Level 1
The first technique calls upon the power of electricity and forms a single tiger that attack those of the users choice. They cannot go far from their source of power or they will dissipate to nothing. As long as the user spends ki, he can keep the tiger active.
The tiger deals Electrical damage with a base damage of (Presencex2+PowBonus).
Effects: Limited Additional Attack+1, Level 1 Indirect Attack, Long-Range Attack 20m(2xPresence+PowBonus), Elemental Attack(air),  Maintained
Disadvantage: Overcharge 5 rounds
Dex8(2 Maint)/Pow8(2 Maint)/Wil8(2 Maint)
MK: 35


BARKSKIN
Level 1
When in danger, nature itself intervenes to protect he who follows Rafael. A Thick layer of bark surrounds the user, taking the damage instead and regenerating itself. Grants Damage Resistance of 600 LP with 2 layers of AT 4(following normal rules with no initiative penalty) and can be maintained.
Effects: Damage resistance 600 LP(Regeneration 100), Armor+4, Maintainable
Disadvantage: Limited situation 1/4 LP
Dex11(2 Maint)/Pow11(2 Maint)/Wil11(3 Maint)
MK: 35


VERMIN SWARM
Level 2
Using his energy he creates all types of vermin within 100m, although it seems they are called upon, that come out of the ground and start clawing and biting those the user designates. These vermin dont hurt much but the pain is unbearable. Base damage is (Presencex2+PowBonus)/2.
Effects: Area Attack 100m Target Choice, Esoteric Effect 160 PhR Severe Pain
Disadvantage: 1 hour preparation, Half Damage
Dex 12/Pow 12/Wil 12
MK: 65


ZEPHYR EAGLE
Level 2
Summoning his inner instinct, the user expulses from him a deep form that takes the shape of an Eagle. It reaches terrible heights before divebombing it's target. Base Damage is (Presencex2+PowBonus)x2
Effects: Long-Range Attack 100m, Attack+100, Damage Multiplierx2, -2 Ki Cost
Cost: Dex 13, Pow 13, Wil 13
MK: 95


GAIA'S CRADLE
Level 3
The wrath of nature is bewildering beyond all possibilities. Gaia reacts to the will of the invoker and uses all it's power to strike and bind all designated targets in the area from humans to spirits. After the cradle is activated, the user may continue the bind by maintaining energy flow.
Effects: Immobilization 20 (Existential), Area Attack 5km Target Choice, Supernatural Attack, Maintainable(Trap effect only)
Cost: Dex22(4 Maint), Pow22(4 Maint), Wil22(3 Maint)
MK: 155

[Lizbeth]

I've got a Technician who's a pacifist and he's got techniques in his tree (a tree called Pax Totalis) that utilise a +100 Attack effect.  One of which uses the +100 Attack to hit an area status effect of Fascination on his opponents, so they just stand and stare at him.  And another with +75 Attack but does no damage, intended for use in disarming.

So you're trying to persuade me that without +100 Attack this character will be less pacifistic?

I would think the obvious one would be that the character has an offensive focus for his combat style. Whether that is because the character is aggressive in nature, or he doesn't like combat and wants to end it as fast as possible is up to the player.

And then this character takes maintained Tech that grants him bonus to dodge/block.

It's up to the skill of the one creating the techniques to not make it something completely overpowered and disgusting.

In case of powergaming it's hard to make a clean border between powered enough and overpowered.

[FearlessElbow]

I've got a Technician who's a pacifist and he's got techniques in his tree (a tree called Pax Totalis) that utilise a +100 Attack effect.  One of which uses the +100 Attack to hit an area status effect of Fascination on his opponents, so they just stand and stare at him.  And another with +75 Attack but does no damage, intended for use in disarming.

So you're trying to persuade me that without +100 Attack this character will be less pacifistic?

Well, the technique doesn't make him more pacifistic, but:

a) He uses the technique as an extension of the pacifist nature of his character, not to add pacifism to his character.  It's a reflection, or a result, of his pacifism, not a part of it.  Someone doesn't wear a blue shirt so that it MAKES them like blue more - they wear it because they ALREADY like blue, and wearing that shirt reflects that colour preference.  It's the same with the techniques you choose to use.
b) Without the pluses to Attack in his techniques, he'd be a less EFFECTIVE pacifist.  He'd be saying "Well, I know you guys are going to kill me, but trust me - if I'd have been able to hit you, then right now you'd either have no weapons or you'd be standing still just gawping instead of fighting.  But I couldn't hit you, because my attack sucks, so.... uhhh... make it quick."

And in any case, no, I'm not trying to persuade you.  I'm just explaining my own views.  I'm under no illusions that you'll agree with those views.  There's no reason why you should.

[Kalis]

I would think the obvious one would be that the character has an offensive focus for his combat style. Whether that is because the character is aggressive in nature, or he doesn't like combat and wants to end it as fast as possible is up to the player.

And then this character takes maintained Tech that grants him bonus to dodge/block.

If he has a technique that gives +100 attack, and another that gives +100 defense and multiple defenses, but no techniques that give fancy esoteric stuff, the personality is that the character focuses on the basics. He doesn't care about running through walls, or life draining entire cities. He's just about basics.

[Lizbeth]

b) Without the pluses to Attack in his techniques, he'd be a less EFFECTIVE pacifist.  He'd be saying "Well, I know you guys are going to kill me, but trust me - if I'd have been able to hit you, then right now you'd either have no weapons or you'd be standing still just gawping instead of fighting.  But I couldn't hit you, because my attack sucks, so.... uhhh... make it quick."

The keyword is in CAPS mode. First of all goal is effectiveness. Then you add whatever you want like pacifist, warrior, trickster, etc. By this logic Pun-Pun is the most effective pacifist, for example.

If he has a technique that gives +100 attack, and another that gives +100 defense and multiple defenses, but no techniques that give fancy esoteric stuff, the personality is that the character focuses on the basics. He doesn't care about running through walls, or life draining entire cities. He's just about basics.

Or probably he is about effectiveness. And then we just have to make an excuse to technique of any broken-ness.