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[Releaser...]

I've been toying around a bit with Black Sun, i might get a party in the near(?) future.
I can't decide on the leader. Sophia and Promethea are in for sure, so:

Clover:
Pros: 1)Can get buffs from Promethea (Rebellio even twice) and Sophia's Offensive Analysis; if he does manage to use Prometheum, everything he touches will most likely die (or soon will) with 14/6 and an additional die. And that's without even counting Focus, Gnosis or any advantage.

Cons: 1)If he is already engaged it could take at least two turns to use Prometheum, assuming that you have to dodge/disengage/attack to Throw.

Lynn:
Pros: 1)Cheaper.
2)She can take Fate Clock to change the Doom counter to everything positive she wants (Shield isn't bad to get 4 armor, Haste is also very good), or take Supernatural Weapon and Piercing Weapons for some extra hitting power.
3)The sickest thing about her is that Sophia can use Defensive Analysis on her to raise her Defense to 17() when using Mirror Image which means that enemies with attack less than 10 will need at least an 8 to hit her and every time they miss, she hits them back.

Cons: 1)Hits much less than Clover with her basic (reactive from Mirror Image) attacks unless she turns the Doom counter to haste so she can use X-Calibur, at least once.
2) She is not Clover (aka lacking coolness).

[Zachilles]

Basically if you want to take any kind of undead Lynn should not be taken.  Clover is always a fantastic leader even if your taking no other undead, Lynn is great if you really wanna take advantage of free agents with big Wanderers like Derek

[Lizbeth]

(Rebellio even twice) and Sophia's Offensive Analysis; if he does manage to use Prometheum, everything he touches will most likely die (or soon will) with 14/6

You cannot use the Rebellio twice on the same target. Since it's the same effect it won't stack with itself.

[vytzka]

Doesn't it, though? Off/Deff Analysis specifies it can't be used on the same target repeatedly.

[Lizbeth]

Yes it is. At least the rulebook says so.

Sophia is Saga I char, that was before the rulebook.

[vytzka]

Gotcha.

[Releaser...]

I have to check that out Lizbeth, thanks (page if you do remember please).
But still, 12/6 without Concentration isn't bad, even if it's a normal charge. But is it better than a static 17 Def with free reactive charges/attacks?

@Zachilles: Free Agents is irrelevant, Clover counts as alive if you want to (i guess), You don't want Lynn to suffer damage to give haste and her transferring ability works well on models that are already included (Promethea, Sophia).

[Lizbeth]

Don't remember, will try to find later when at home.

But is it better than a static 17 Def with free reactive charges/attacks?

Yes, it is better. You see, when you attack it's your choice. And when Lynn have Df 17 with reactive counter it's opponent choice whether to attack her or not.

[Releaser...]

Like i said, that doesn't prevent her from using X-Calibur each turn if she changes the Doom counter to Haste (or get an extra action from Deimon or Sophia). She will be able to use it every turn, especially if she doesn't have to move, without having a Def drop. She can even move if she has Haste and gets the extra action from Deimon.

[Lizbeth]

Like i said, that doesn't prevent her from using X-Calibur each turn if she changes the Doom counter to Haste (or get an extra action from Deimon or Sophia). She will be able to use it every turn, especially if she doesn't have to move, without having a Def drop. She can even move if she has Haste and gets the extra action from Deimon.

Her x-calibur is 14 A+D attack and she have D 15. Clover can do the same 14 A+D attack and have D 15 (10 + die to be correct). But Clover have Throw and other stuff while Lynn sacrifices her debuff removal ability.

So while Clover is more powerful but also he costs more, so Lynn is worth her points.

[Releaser...]

We do agree to an extend because you overlook the fact that you might have to dodge more than once in the same turn; Lynn sacrifices an action point to "dodge" for free for the whole turn (hitting back every time for free), especially when buffed by Sophia while Clover has to dodge every time, reducing the chances to use Prometheum and thus making a single attack (or charge) with the same hitting power Lynn has. Dodging once before you use Prometheum is ok because Sophia can transfer an action point but after you use it, you are exposed.

[Lizbeth]

As I said, the opponent will not attack Lynn — she is not your only miniature. Or he will try to hit her with something like +A attack with extra Gnosis (average roll 7).
I admit her ability is a proof of Saga III power inflation (just compare it with Griever), but Clover is also very powerful and inflict more pain if you will ignore him — like ping-pong around three members of your party throwing them to hard objects so they are denied activation.

[Releaser...]

It seems i have to buy and try them both.
Both appear to be equally strong (at least to my eyes).
If you do find that rule, let me know.

[Lizbeth]

Page 9 top right corner.

[Releaser...]

Thank you sir.
What about the abilities that don't have a duration (for example Organization, Lasso of Unity etc etc) or if the character passes an effect attack for the first time of the turn (for example Blizzard)?