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[Heart of the Tiger]

Combat starts. I surprise my target, because of a techniwue or otherwise. I decide not to attack my target. Core Exxet states that you can't attack someone who surprises you, so my target can't attack me. I do that for three rounds. Then I get +30 attack, +30 initiative (irrelevant at that point.)
1: Is that possible rulewise(I don't have Core Exxet)?
2: Would you allow that?

[Rii Nagaja]

I would argue that "surprise" doesn't mean "is stealthed" in a combat situation, so if your only advantage that lead to surprise was high initiative, I would say that the state of being surprised just lasts as long as the opponent needs to get himself together.
That would be one round I guess.

Though I am not sure about the visuals that somebody with really superior initiative would imply. If he is able to surprise every round again, what is he doing, if he doesn't block (if that's his specialty)? Just tippling around on his feet really fast, or making confusing noises that leave the enemy stunned?
Maybe one could houserule in case that the surpriser doesn't actually do anything motion related, that he doesn't get any initiative dice to begin with, so this won't happen so easyly. Or another way could be that his initiative rolls just serve as a defense here, so that he doesn't get surprised, but cannot surprise the other with blank stare alone.


In case that the "surprise" had nothing to do with initiative, because you were stealthed for real, then you can of course "aim" for some round, but in this case the +30 initiative wouldn't be that bad to have too.

[alphawhelp]

Combat starts. I surprise my target, because of a techniwue or otherwise. I decide not to attack my target. Core Exxet states that you can't attack someone who surprises you, so my target can't attack me. I do that for three rounds. Then I get +30 attack, +30 initiative (irrelevant at that point.)
1: Is that possible rulewise(I don't have Core Exxet)?
2: Would you allow that?

nope, if you hold your action until such a point where you pass under 150 points higher initiative than the person you have surprise, you forfeit your surprise.  if you have surprise, you have to use it or lose it.

[Sharpandpointies]

nope, if you hold your action until such a point where you pass under 150 points higher initiative than the person you have surprise, you forfeit your surprise.  if you have surprise, you have to use it or lose it.

This pretty much covers it, ruleswise.

[Heart of the Tiger]

Thanks for the explaination.

[Kalis]

If you are surprising your target, why wait for a paltry +30 attack and initiative in 3 turns? They take huge minuses to their defense, it makes more sense to just attack them now. I would allow it only because your 3 turns of farting around when you have some sort of guaranteed surprise amuses me.

[Lagnalok]

They only can't use their first offensive direct action against you...

So they can attack someone else first and then switch to you or use any area of effect attack not directly targeted against you to baypass this restriction. However, as you surprised them, you can intercept them even after they have decleared what they want to do and do your actions before them as long as you still have actions/attacks left, don't forget that they only get the -90 penalty against the first action you do against them.

[Spirit_Crusher]

They only can't use their first offensive direct action against you...

So they can attack someone else first and then switch to you or use any area of effect attack not directly targeted against you to baypass this restriction. However, as you surprised them, you can intercept them even after they have decleared what they want to do and do your actions before them as long as you still have actions/attacks left, don't forget that they only get the -90 penalty against the first action you do against them.

I don't think this is how it works. They cannot target you period, unless you strike them first, in which case they can retaliate if not put on the defensive.

[Lagnalok]

They only can't use their first offensive direct action against you...

So they can attack someone else first and then switch to you or use any area of effect attack not directly targeted against you to baypass this restriction. However, as you surprised them, you can intercept them even after they have decleared what they want to do and do your actions before them as long as you still have actions/attacks left, don't forget that they only get the -90 penalty against the first action you do against them.

I don't think this is how it works. They cannot target you period, unless you strike them first, in which case they can retaliate if not put on the defensive.

Sorry, I remembered it partly wrong here, curse the order of information in the books. Had to re-read the whole combat section... and noted that untill now I handeled the whole thing wrong:

Core Exxet states that you can't attack someone who surprises you

This is not entierly correct and by any means is no Core Exxet change: If you surprise someone by scoring 150+ points more in initative the only benefit you get is a -90 for the suprised character in the first opposed action against him. You can trade this against benefit against the option to intercept any action the surprised character makes even after all dice are rolled. However, this dosn't stop him from attacking you.

There are other ways to achive a Surprise attack over your opponents like by setting up a abush or sneaking up behind someone and attacking him to assasinate him and the like. In this case no iniative is rolled, combat begins immediately and you (or your party) goes first and the opponents last and are surprised(even if they would have gone first if initiative would have been rolled). Only in this case the surprised ones can't attack (only as a counter attack), this is only in the first round however, so if you achive a iniative surprise in the second round you still can be attacked.

Sources:
Core book page 78 "Surprise" & 83 "Surprised"
Core Exxet page 85 "La sorpresa" & 88 "Sorpresa"

[Spirit_Crusher]

Sources:
Core book page 78 "Surprise" & 83 "Surprised"
Core Exxet page 85 "La sorpresa" & 88 "Sorpresa"

Core Exxet pg 89, tabla 43, crossing Sorpresa and Ataque you find a big NA. Quite clear.
If you surprise an opponent, he can't initiate an attack against you. If you choose to attack him on your turn or do some other opposed action, he gets -90. If you don't act on your turn, you get the ability to stop and anticipate him, but he doesn't have the -90 no more. He does not get the ability to target you with attacks, since he's surprised by you, and "no es posibile para un sujeto sorprendido de iniciar un ataque".
You may argue that the surprise obtained via initiative is not "real" surprise, but I suspect it would have been called with a different name if that was the case.

[alphawhelp]

Sources:
Core book page 78 "Surprise" & 83 "Surprised"
Core Exxet page 85 "La sorpresa" & 88 "Sorpresa"

Core Exxet pg 89, tabla 43, crossing Sorpresa and Ataque you find a big NA. Quite clear.
If you surprise an opponent, he can't initiate an attack against you. If you choose to attack him on your turn or do some other opposed action, he gets -90. If you don't act on your turn, you get the ability to stop and anticipate him, but he doesn't have the -90 no more. He does not get the ability to target you with attacks, since he's surprised by you, and "no es posibile para un sujeto sorprendido de iniciar un ataque".
You may argue that the surprise obtained via initiative is not "real" surprise, but I suspect it would have been called with a different name if that was the case.

Spirit Crusher has the right of things.

[Arikail]

Of course, Dominus Exxet does have the ability to act against someone that surprises you with initiative, if you declare it before initiative is rolled. You take huge negatives against anyone else that round, but in a 1 on 1 duel, you cannot rely upon surprise to make you completely invincible due to being unable to be attacked. I don't have my books on me atm, or I'd give you a page reference, but it should be in the beginning, with the other new combat options. Also, that may be optional, but I'd be using it in a game where this was happening frequently.

[Heart of the Tiger]

Of course, Dominus Exxet does have the ability to act against someone that surprises you with initiative, if you declare it before initiative is rolled. You take huge negatives against anyone else that round, but in a 1 on 1 duel, you cannot rely upon surprise to make you completely invincible due to being unable to be attacked. I don't have my books on me atm, or I'd give you a page reference, but it should be in the beginning, with the other new combat options. Also, that may be optional, but I'd be using it in a game where this was happening frequently.

You mean "Anticipate Surprise"? This maneuver only reduces the -90 penatly of surprise to a -40 penalty, it nowhere states that you can ignore the "you cannot attack someone surprising you" rule.

[Arikail]

Now that I've got my books, yes, you are correct. Looks like something for the House Rules document, as I have in mind an opponent with supreme initiative, and would rather him not perform a tpk because nobody could act against him. I want the fight to be difficult, not impossible.

[Heart of the Tiger]

Now that I've got my books, yes, you are correct. Looks like something for the House Rules document, as I have in mind an opponent with supreme initiative, and would rather him not perform a tpk because nobody could act against him. I want the fight to be difficult, not impossible.

Be careful, if you take away every benefit surprise has to offer, it becomes pointless. You can already completely eliminate all action penalties from surprise with a "Foretell" ki technique.