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[alphawhelp]

I need a bit of help upping the difficulty of the combat without making combats impossible.

Party includes a level 10 weaponmaster attack focused, with an average AT of 11. uses berserker ars magnus and about 70 Noah Elan (ignore first 35 pts of penalties), Dual Wielding Libra user, +20 artifact equipment, fond of making area attacks (with Area Attack Module) using Libra's range to prevent being counterattacked.  Has increased reach (combined with Libra lets him Area Attack 10 people per attack).  Has over 500 LP.

A level 10 Creation/Earth Wizard, 90/90 on path with lots of metamagic and effective Int of 19.  with over 90 pts Mikael Elan (can resurrect people), about 3000 Zeon, uses Defined Magic Projection to get auto 440 on everything.  Can raise AT of entire party to 12 & make everyone movement speed 20. also +80 init to everyone.

A level 10 Warrior Summoner invocation specialist (pacts with ****ing everything, including The Judgement Reversed, Byakku, The Sun, Kagutsuchi, The Death, The Devil, etc), about 2000 Zeon, also has Fire Sheele (with Familiar advantage), Summon of 450 with an artifact that adds +10 to summon rolls for Arcana (but not great beasts or aeons), Also has extensive knowledge on several incarnations.  Crazy Armor when using Byakku

A level 10 Tao, Defensively focused, Akido, Tai Chi, Selene, probably some others I can't remember, might be getting Velez soon (he has less MAs than he should because he recently traded 3 of them away to The Seller for knowledge of Selene)

Level 9 Paladin, super block focused, has like 320-ish block with his shield, Guardian Ars Magnus, blocks for other people whose defenses aren't so good. (player usually doesn't make it to sessions, though, so I normally don't include this character in combats.

They destroy everything, including an 11-man strong Imperium squad of people with 320 no-penalty defenses.

Trying to plan a fight with Omega but I don't think Omega has a chance, honestly.  He will get Judgement reversed, and summarily roflstomped, and he can't even run away because they're all movement speed 20.

The finale (vs Omega & some more powers in shadow stuff) is next week, and I want to do something really challenging.

[Sharpandpointies]

Ouch.  Tough group.   

That's tricky.  Tough situation. 

Well...okay.  Can you have Omega fight smart?  As in, Omega doesn't show up for a straight fight?  Instead, Omega has done his homework, knows about all of their benefits, has found gear of his own (ie, some potent artifacts beyond just 'Longinus', which is pretty brutal), hits them when they least expect it, etc...

...how'd the dude get Judgement Reversed?  O_o  Never mind.  Let's see.  There's no save for that.

Crap.

Anything you could do against this would feel contrived to block that power, and rightfully so.  :(  Hm...

It's the more 'Omega and More Powers' that might save you.  If you can come up with something to stall that darned 'Judgement Reversed' thing, Omega still has his enormous advantages.  He's not unbeatable, but he doesn't suddenly turn into a 98lbs weakling. 
 

[alphawhelp]

it's unlikely that Omega is going to have time to plan.  The party is probably going to jump him as soon as he is released from prison.

I could say that Omega has some additional powers he's gained as part of the Pillar of Souls, and since that specifically doesn't depend on Gnosis he won't lose those.

[Pneumonica]

Much simpler solution - the prison can't open if the Judgment Reversed is active.  Put it another way, the gateway itself has a Gnosis score, and reducing it to zero makes it ineffective.  Thus, the Judgment Reversed cannot be active for Omega to escape.  While they might "camp out" to keep the world safe, if they want to take it down they'll need to not have the Judgment Reversed active.  At that point, Omega can do Omega stuff to the summoner and all will be right with the world.

[Lia Valenth]

Personally I find Omega to be woefully weak. As far as I am concerned he should be 5~10 levels higher with 50+ Gnosis. As per this problem, I would increase his Gnosis to 45 and not explain why The Judgement Reversed does not seem to be working on him. After all none have actually seen Omega and there is no reason for the characters - or anyone who isn't relying on you not changing anything when they have proven things strait from the book are too weak - would know exactly what his Gnosis is.

[Sharpandpointies]

it's unlikely that Omega is going to have time to plan.  The party is probably going to jump him as soon as he is released from prison.

I could say that Omega has some additional powers he's gained as part of the Pillar of Souls, and since that specifically doesn't depend on Gnosis he won't lose those.

Good start, that. 

Also, if Omega's Shadow has been out and the characters haven't killed it, then right there you have something that can tell Omega the players are waiting.  And can have picked up some interesting stuff.

And if they have killed it, he made another one. 

Okay, I know he can't just 'whip one up', but why not?  As noted by others, he doesn't have to follow the books exactly, and if one of your players starts complaining, just fix him with a look and say 'I see.  You've been reading up on the guy you're supposed to face, have you?  Hence, me changing things.'

[alphawhelp]

Much simpler solution - the prison can't open if the Judgment Reversed is active.  Put it another way, the gateway itself has a Gnosis score, and reducing it to zero makes it ineffective.  Thus, the Judgment Reversed cannot be active for Omega to escape.  While they might "camp out" to keep the world safe, if they want to take it down they'll need to not have the Judgment Reversed active.  At that point, Omega can do Omega stuff to the summoner and all will be right with the world.

They're not actually going to be opening the prison.  For starters, they don't know where the prison is, or what is inside of it, or that it is even a prison at all.  So they have no reason to suspect that they will need the Judgement Reversed until after Omega comes out of it and starts attacking them.  Millennium is going to be the one who opens the prison.  The battle is going to be taking place outside the Prison.

Personally I find Omega to be woefully weak. As far as I am concerned he should be 5~10 levels higher with 50+ Gnosis. As per this problem, I would increase his Gnosis to 45 and not explain why The Judgement Reversed does not seem to be working on him. After all none have actually seen Omega and there is no reason for the characters - or anyone who isn't relying on you not changing anything when they have proven things strait from the book are too weak - would know exactly what his Gnosis is.

I disagree with this.  Omega is not woefully weak.  He is extremely powerful.  Even reduced to Gnosis 0, his attack scores are incredibly high, and he's wielding one of the most powerful weapons ever created.  Furthermore, while Judgement Reversed would trivialize Omega's first form, his second form is mostly Technician powers, which aren't affected.  The Lord of Infinity can still attack at 500, block at 400, etc.  None of that changes.  What changes is  Omega's defenses are being shot down, and it somewhat irritates me that whoever wrote him up didn't have the foresight to give him an additional defenses technique.

If the Wizard launches Earth Spikes at Omega, that's 8 attacks, all with a guaranteed 440, instantly putting Omega into the -90 defensive penalty, and that doesn't take into consideration the very probable 10 more attacks he has to suffer from the rest of the party.

Regardless, Omega starts out with a +100 init technique and a +90 to attack technique

it's likely he will go first, and with +90 to attack, it's likely he can hit someone even if they have a guaranteed 440 on their defense.  So on Lord of Infinity's first turn, I can hit the Wizard, steal his Perfect Shield, then hit him again to kill him most likely, I don't think he will be able to survive a direct hit from Lord of Infinity.  I could also have Omega aim for the head, which, without a shield to defend himself, is instant death.  That will prevent a critical result that the Wiz can be healed from by the Warrior Summoner with The Death.  Gnosis 0 doesn't prevent any of this from happening.

However, there is a chance that the Wizard will go into Avatar mode.  Then again, I can steal the ability to go into Avatar mode.  Omega's got high enough attack that I could steal tons of powers with Pillar of Souls.

With Omega reduced to Gnosis 0, however, it's pretty much a given that even if I can have Omega kill off one of the PCs, the Warrior Summoner will probably one shot Omega, and if the Warrior Summoner can't one shot Omega, the Weapon Master will finish him off.

Things might be further complicated if the Wizard reaches 100 Elan with Mikael before the confrontation with Omega, if that happens the party is basically unbeatable by anyone who can't destroy souls (which, is a power that is oddly absent from Omega's repertoire.)

If I was going to change Omega, I wouldn't make him a Gnosis 50 uber god of unkillable.  From an out of character perspective, Omega doesn't exist to destroy the world, he exists to be defeated by people trying to save the world.  Regardless, if I was going to change Omega, I would probably just add an additional defenses technique.

Good start, that. 

Also, if Omega's Shadow has been out and the characters haven't killed it, then right there you have something that can tell Omega the players are waiting.  And can have picked up some interesting stuff.

And if they have killed it, he made another one. 

Okay, I know he can't just 'whip one up', but why not?  As noted by others, he doesn't have to follow the books exactly, and if one of your players starts complaining, just fix him with a look and say 'I see.  You've been reading up on the guy you're supposed to face, have you?  Hence, me changing things.'

The PCs already met the Shadow of Omega when they were much lower level, he tried to trick the PCs into letting him out of the prison, under the guise of Omega would promise to destroy the church and make the world safe for supernaturals (such as the PCs) to live in again.  This was way into the early levels of the campaign.  They told him they would consider it, but the PCs managed to do something else that makes getting the key to the prison themselves impossible, so Omega has to be released some other way.

But regardless, as I said, the players are likely to be present at the unsealing of the prison, and if Omega tries to run away, he will be caught, it is an inevitability as you cannot escape a movement speed 20 party.

[Lia Valenth]

If I was going to change Omega, I wouldn't make him a Gnosis 50 uber god of unkillable.  From an out of character perspective, Omega doesn't exist to destroy the world, he exists to be defeated by people trying to save the world.

     I never said that one should make him unkillable, I said one should increase his level by 5~10 and give him Gnosis 50+. How is this different? We know that The Powers in the Shadows probably has access to many level 13+, beings who should be stronger than your party (and by many I mean at least 100, not to mention all their tech, magic, etc.). He is not a threat to the world, he is a footnote. For what is supposed be the strongest creature in the book, the thing that the heroes vanquish and save the world, he does not really work.

     How is he a great final enemy that the party must save the world from when he poses absolutely no threat to the world? I believe he should pose a threat to the world, be strong enough to challenge the greatest the world has to offer. He does not have to be an automatic winner of that battle, but he should at least pose a challenge. But he needs a huge boost to be a threat to the greatest powers of the setting, much less the PCs.

     As you note yourself a group of a mere 5 level 10s can "roflstomp" him. I'm sorry, not even 5 level 10s, 4 level 10s and a level 9. He was never really a threat to anything.

[Sharpandpointies]

What changes is  Omega's defenses are being shot down, and it somewhat irritates me that whoever wrote him up didn't have the foresight to give him an additional defenses technique.

Change his Ordo Mundus into something more potent, like a +50 bonus on all defenses in a round.  That at worst makes his penalty -40.

Regardless, Omega starts out with a +100 init technique and a +90 to attack technique
it's likely he will go first, and with +90 to attack, it's likely he can hit someone even if they have a guaranteed 440 on their defense.  So on Lord of Infinity's first turn, I can hit the Wizard, steal his Perfect Shield, then hit him again to kill him most likely, I don't think he will be able to survive a direct hit from Lord of Infinity.  I could also have Omega aim for the head, which, without a shield to defend himself, is instant death.  That will prevent a critical result that the Wiz can be healed from by the Warrior Summoner with The Death.  Gnosis 0 doesn't prevent any of this from happening.

All good possibilities. 

Alternately, depending on how good their defenses are, you could use Inocentius Terminus.  Though I suspect their defenses are high enough to say 'no' to that. 

I think boosting Omega's defense, either through giving him a full-round dodge bonus or a Shield at least (which will get broken but still allow him to block a fair number of attacks at full value) are good starts.

The PCs already met the Shadow of Omega when they were much lower level, he tried to trick the PCs into letting him out of the prison, under the guise of Omega would promise to destroy the church and make the world safe for supernaturals (such as the PCs) to live in again.  This was way into the early levels of the campaign.  They told him they would consider it, but the PCs managed to do something else that makes getting the key to the prison themselves impossible, so Omega has to be released some other way.

But regardless, as I said, the players are likely to be present at the unsealing of the prison, and if Omega tries to run away, he will be caught, it is an inevitability as you cannot escape a movement speed 20 party.

Not if he uses a device that can actually instantly transport him somewhere else in the world (ie teleportation).  They have to find him at that point. 

Which is certainly possible if his Shadow is still out there, gathering what he needs.

[alphawhelp]

If I was going to change Omega, I wouldn't make him a Gnosis 50 uber god of unkillable.  From an out of character perspective, Omega doesn't exist to destroy the world, he exists to be defeated by people trying to save the world.

     I never said that one should make him unkillable, I said one should increase his level by 5~10 and give him Gnosis 50+. How is this different? We know that The Powers in the Shadows probably has access to many level 13+, beings who should be stronger than your party (and by many I mean at least 100, not to mention all their tech, magic, etc.). He is not a threat to the world, he is a footnote. For what is supposed be the strongest creature in the book, the thing that the heroes vanquish and save the world, he does not really work.

     How is he a great final enemy that the party must save the world from when he poses absolutely no threat to the world? I believe he should pose a threat to the world, be strong enough to challenge the greatest the world has to offer. He does not have to be an automatic winner of that battle, but he should at least pose a challenge. But he needs a huge boost to be a threat to the greatest powers of the setting, much less the PCs.

     As you note yourself a group of a mere 5 level 10s can "roflstomp" him. I'm sorry, not even 5 level 10s, 4 level 10s and a level 9. He was never really a threat to anything.

Giving him Gnosis 50 alone makes him unkillable to anyone except another gnosis 50 character.  forget about what happens if you also add 5 or 10 levels.

Omega never was a threat to the world as written.  The Imperium only did not end him right off the bat because they were afraid that the fight would cause the Beryls and Shajads to become aware of the Pillars of Souls.  The Imperium has and always had the power to destroy him at any moment, they simply chose not to.  This is all spelled out explicitly in Omega's history.

And, if you take the Imperium (and PCs) out of the Picture, there isn't anyone that can actually stop Omega.  Just going by the levels and stats of the best Gaia has to offer from the minis book, it's pretty clear that Omega can destroy the majority of the signature npcs, entire teams at a time, with relative ease.  The exceptions to the rule are the powers in the shadow and the PCs, of course.  The only reason Omega is not a threat to the world, is because PCs and Imperium exist.  He was never meant to be a threat to the powers in the shadow.  it's been hammered all over all the anima books.  absolutely nobody has the power to compete with the powers in the shadow except for the Beryls and Shajads.  Omega isn't exempt.

And the reason 4 level 10s and 1 level 9 have the ability to roflstomp omega is literally one ability: The Judgement Reversed.  Without that power, there is a pretty good chance Omega would TPK my PCs.  There is a pretty good chance omega would TPK my PCs if they all gained 2 levels each, but just still did not have Judgement Reversed.  If anything, you should take more issue that Judgement Reversed trivializes enemies that are supposed to be godly, rather than the level of my PCs.

Also, level 10 is nothing to sneeze at.  You are among the most powerful people who have walked Gaia at level 10, and even outlevel some Imperium agents (Dereck Shezzard is only level 9).

What changes is  Omega's defenses are being shot down, and it somewhat irritates me that whoever wrote him up didn't have the foresight to give him an additional defenses technique.

Change his Ordo Mundus into something more potent, like a +50 bonus on all defenses in a round.  That at worst makes his penalty -40.

Regardless, Omega starts out with a +100 init technique and a +90 to attack technique
it's likely he will go first, and with +90 to attack, it's likely he can hit someone even if they have a guaranteed 440 on their defense.  So on Lord of Infinity's first turn, I can hit the Wizard, steal his Perfect Shield, then hit him again to kill him most likely, I don't think he will be able to survive a direct hit from Lord of Infinity.  I could also have Omega aim for the head, which, without a shield to defend himself, is instant death.  That will prevent a critical result that the Wiz can be healed from by the Warrior Summoner with The Death.  Gnosis 0 doesn't prevent any of this from happening.

All good possibilities. 

Alternately, depending on how good their defenses are, you could use Inocentius Terminus.  Though I suspect their defenses are high enough to say 'no' to that. 

I think boosting Omega's defense, either through giving him a full-round dodge bonus or a Shield at least (which will get broken but still allow him to block a fair number of attacks at full value) are good starts.

The PCs already met the Shadow of Omega when they were much lower level, he tried to trick the PCs into letting him out of the prison, under the guise of Omega would promise to destroy the church and make the world safe for supernaturals (such as the PCs) to live in again.  This was way into the early levels of the campaign.  They told him they would consider it, but the PCs managed to do something else that makes getting the key to the prison themselves impossible, so Omega has to be released some other way.

But regardless, as I said, the players are likely to be present at the unsealing of the prison, and if Omega tries to run away, he will be caught, it is an inevitability as you cannot escape a movement speed 20 party.

Not if he uses a device that can actually instantly transport him somewhere else in the world (ie teleportation).  They have to find him at that point. 

Which is certainly possible if his Shadow is still out there, gathering what he needs.

I dunno.  I am also considering coming up with some stats for Lazarus and using him as a "backup" in case Omega goes down too easy.  I think, though, that Lazarus is guaranteed to TPK the party in a single round using Ophiucos Area Liberation, even if reduced to Gnosis 0.

[Heart of the Tiger]

If I was going to change Omega, I wouldn't make him a Gnosis 50 uber god of unkillable.  From an out of character perspective, Omega doesn't exist to destroy the world, he exists to be defeated by people trying to save the world.  Regardless, if I was going to change Omega, I would probably just add an additional defenses technique.

I agree with this, altough it depends a bit on the players level. If it's a super high level game (level 15+), it might be a good idea to give Omega some levels. (and maybe +50 defense for 3CP)

And the reason 4 level 10s and 1 level 9 have the ability to roflstomp omega is literally one ability: The Judgement Reversed.  Without that power, there is a pretty good chance Omega would TPK my PCs.  There is a pretty good chance omega would TPK my PCs if they all gained 2 levels each, but just still did not have Judgement Reversed.  If anything, you should take more issue that Judgement Reversed trivializes enemies that are supposed to be godly, rather than the level of my PCs.

Reducing Omega's gnosis score to zero would make the whole experience of fighting and actually beating him a lot less memorable. He's one of the, if not the toughest monster in the books and taking away his gnosis is something I, as a GM, would not allow. The Judgement Reversed is a bitch indeed, but one could argue (or rule) that Omega's connection to the Pillar of Souls would make him immune to such cowardly attemts to beat him.

Houserule: Creatures who possess at least (insert number) more gnosis than the invoker of The Judgement Reversed are immune to its effects and this Arcana cannot affect creatures of gnosis 45 or beyond. 

[Lia Valenth]

...it's been hammered all over all the anima books.  absolutely nobody has the power to compete with the powers in the shadow except for the Beryls and Shajads.  Omega isn't exempt.

This is where I disagree. I do not play, nor do I plan to play, any of the Anima games save for the RPG. In this respect anything outside the RPG books (and for me the ones in english) are not considered part of the game. Thus, all I have to go on is what the english RPG - base, Dominus Exxet, Those who Walked Amongst Us, and The GM Toolkit - said. In those Omega's entry is that he was supposed to be born to destroy the world. The chapter we get on The Powers in the Shadows is tiny and just said they are a limiter on PCs and prove he is far too weak to complete his alleged reason for existence. If I used the other material, or more comes out to support you, this may have merit. Until more comes out I cannot agree with respect to the RPG.

[Sharpandpointies]

I dunno.  I am also considering coming up with some stats for Lazarus and using him as a "backup" in case Omega goes down too easy.  I think, though, that Lazarus is guaranteed to TPK the party in a single round using Ophiucos Area Liberation, even if reduced to Gnosis 0.

Of course!  Having a civilization-destroying fellow who cakewalks his way through Imperium Death Squads pop in to say 'Hi!' on the heels of Omega is perfect!  :)  An even better idea - have him lead off with Delevei Deus Anima!? 

I joke, of course.

>_>

<_<

Maybe. 

^_^

More seriously -

So don't mess around with The Judgement Reversed.  Instead, beef up his defenses a touch, altering them so they can handle multiple attacks.  I vote a Shield, personally.  It allows him to defend against anyone at full value, but adds the drama of the Shield taking damage and slowly coming apart.  The players get excited because their attacks are actually accomplishing something. 

[Sharpandpointies]

The Judgement Reversed is a bitch indeed, but one could argue (or rule) that Omega's connection to the Pillar of Souls would make him immune to such cowardly attemts to beat him.

Cowardly?  O_o  I agree with everything else, but jeez, fight to the death for the fate of the world, here.  If I were there, I wouldn't be concerned about metaphorically kicking sand in the dude's eyes...  :)

[Heart of the Tiger]

You wouldn't, but my character for example, would. *...AND THOSE WORDS MEAN A DUEL... TO DEATH...*

Getting serious again...