Knocked down rules help

[Kharetore]

Knocked down you are affected by -2 CBT, -2 DEF, No orders, No actions, other then getting up(in next activation), No control area.

If a unit is knocked down during its activation (combat with a model that knocks it down), the model that knocks it down then activates and attacks the knocked down model does it then stand up and defends itself with the -2 CBT and DEF?
Or does it only stand up if a new model makes contact to attack the model?

What happens with the Russian Trapper and his Trap Laying? If an enemy unit runs, charge or retreats with in 10 fathoms they are knocked down. When is the model knocked down?
Are they knocked down at the end of the movement or when the Free Trap laying ability is used?
If it was a charge do they still fight once the model is engaged with the -2 CBT/DEF or does the charged unit get to make a one side attack?

[Liancour]

If a unit is knocked down during its activation (combat with a model that knocks it down), the model that knocks it down then activates and attacks the knocked down model does it then stand up and defends itself with the -2 CBT and DEF?

Yes.

What happens with the Russian Trapper and his Trap Laying? If an enemy unit runs, charge or retreats with in 10 fathoms they are knocked down. When is the model knocked down?

At any point of the movement (within the 10 fathoms), player of the trapper choose it.

If it was a charge do they still fight once the model is engaged with the -2 CBT/DEF or does the charged unit get to make a one side attack?

No, the knock down state occurs before contact in this case, there is no attack sequence.

[Alaster]

Just some more clarifications :

- When a Knock down unit has to make a close combat (being engaged, or standing up while engaged by an opponent) then this unit suffers from all the penalties from being knock down : -2 CBT, -2 DEF AND no Order !

- The Russian Trapper can use its order against an opponent unit that has charged... AND choose to trigger it when this opponent unit has engaged its opponennt. (for exemple : The Russian trapper can trigger its trap against a opponent unit that just charged it).
Doing that, the close combat is triggered and the opponent unit suffers from all the penalties from being knock down (-2 CBT, -2 DEF and No orders) AND from the penalties of charge (-1 CBT) for a total of -3 CBT, -2 DEF and no orders.

Yes, it is a really stupid idea to charge an opponent unit on the trap aera of its Russian trapper's ally ;-)

[Kaptain O]

Just some more clarifications :

- The Russian Trapper can use its order against an opponent unit that has charged... AND choose to trigger it when this opponent unit has engaged its opponennt. (for exemple : The Russian trapper can trigger its trap against a opponent unit that just charged it).
Doing that, the close combat is triggered and the opponent unit suffers from all the penalties from being knock down (-2 CBT, -2 DEF and No orders) AND from the penalties of charge (-1 CBT) for a total of -3 CBT, -2 DEF and no orders.

That's not what Liancour just said before you, he just said there would be no attack sequence.

[Alaster]

Even Liancour can makes mistakes 

[Liancour]

Reading actual English rules, my answer is still the same. Because a free order cannot be used during an attack sequence, and if it's used just before, contact do not occur.

[Kaptain O]

Even Liancour can makes mistakes 

And Alaster can also!

[Liancour]

We talk in private (you must know that Alaster is one of the french rule guru), and it occurs that French rules allow the trap to be used just after the contact occured.
But some parts of english rules makes this complicated, so I have to speak about this with RedRapier. Because this ruling would have a strong impact on other order.

So for now : French rules allow it / English and official rules, you're going to have a answer quickly.

[Kaptain O]

When you say French Rules vs English Rules, did Cipher actually put out rules in both languages that conflict?  Or are we talking about the previous version of the game put out by Asmodee (that happens to be in french) compared to the current version of the game put out by Cipher (that happens to be in english)?

[Liancour]

Cipher rules are supposed to be translation from french rules, but a few adaptation has been made and some choice can have altered some rules. As I'm not an expert in English, I prefer to check with RedRapier, I could have mistakenly see some modifications.

[RedRapier]

checking in real quick, I have been away and will look into this tomorrow

[Liancour]

Ok, here's the final answer.

I made a mistake, so the attack sequence can take place with all the malus.

Why I made this mistake : there was an old and complicated rule named CNR, that would make the situation tricky, but hopefully this have been rewritten. I was still thinking about this old rule when I gave my first answer...

That's kind of funny because I'm the one who rewrote the rule.